[CCWG-ACCT] Request for Clarification on Threshold Issue
Rubens Kuhl
rubensk at nic.br
Mon Feb 29 20:21:39 UTC 2016
Kavouss,
Even though being called Request For Comments, they are actually the binding structure of Internet Protocols that allows the Internet to be what it is today.
Nevertheless, it was at some point (years after its initial publishing) recognised as a Best Current Practice and keeps this status to this date, and become referenced in almost all newer protocol specifications, so this document survived the scrutiny of times.
Rubens
.;
> On Feb 29, 2016, at 4:42 AM, Kavouss Arasteh <kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear All,
> The hyperlink which provide some information on the use of " shall" "shallnot" and so on provided by Network Working Group is for comments see below and dated 20 years ago.
>
> "Network Working Group S. Bradner
> Request for Comments: 2119 Harvard University
> BCP: 14 March 1997
> Category: Best Current Practice
> S. Bradner
> Request for Comments: 2119" Harvard University
> BCP: 14 March 1997
>
> My comment is that we have to look at the matter within the context of the phrase and within an example claimed to be best practice
> I strongly believe that if we want to change the text we need to discuss it at our forthcoming physical meeting on 04 March
> At that mmeting we have to agree the use of " should" or " would" instead of "may" AND CERTAINLY NOT SHALL
> Moreover we need to clearly mentioned the minimum number of SO/AC in order that exercising the community power has some legal validity. That minimum seems to be 4 ( simple majority) of 7 SO/AC¨
> Regards
> Kavouss
>
> 2016-02-29 4:48 GMT+01:00 Jordan Carter <jordan at internetnz.net.nz <mailto:jordan at internetnz.net.nz>>:
> hi all
>
> I think this does need to be clear, and the approach set out is what I think our proposal is meant to convey.
>
> best,
> Jordan
>
>
> On 29 February 2016 at 14:12, Chris Disspain <chris at disspain.id.au <mailto:chris at disspain.id.au>> wrote:
> Bruce and Keith + 1.
>
>
> Cheers,
>
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>> On 29 Feb 2016, at 12:02 , Drazek, Keith <kdrazek at verisign.com <mailto:kdrazek at verisign.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Bruce,
>>
>> Thanks for your reply.
>>
>> I agree fully there needs to be a minimum. Speaking personally, I think 4 SO/ACs should be the minimum level of participation, with 3 of those 4 in support/not objecting required to use the powers.
>>
>> I hope we can all confirm a common understanding so the bylaw drafters will have clear and unambiguous direction.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Keith
>>
>>
>> On Feb 27, 2016, at 6:03 PM, Bruce Tonkin <Bruce.Tonkin at melbourneit.com.au <mailto:Bruce.Tonkin at melbourneit.com.au>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Keith,
>>>
>>> I assume there also needs to be some lower limit of participants that applies to the concept of “preventing the need for unanimous support”.
>>>
>>> Taking an extreme case, what if only one SO or AC “chooses” to be part of the decisional process? Every decision taken would be unanimous by default.
>>>
>>> How many participants of the 7 SOs and ACs makes a viable Empowered Community? Should it be 2, 3, or 4. I hope we get at least 4 out of 7 for it to genuinely represent a significant portion of the community.
>>>
>>> So rather than “If fewer than 5”, it could be “If at least 4”
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Bruce Tonkin
>>>
>>> <>
>>> From: accountability-cross-community-bounces at icann.org <mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces at icann.org> [mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces at icann.org <mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces at icann.org>] On Behalf Of Drazek, Keith
>>> Sent: Sunday, 28 February 2016 7:04 AM
>>> To: accountability-cross-community at icann.org <mailto:accountability-cross-community at icann.org>
>>> Subject: [CCWG-ACCT] Request for Clarification on Threshold Issue
>>>
>>> Hi Thomas, Mathieu and Leon. I’m submitting the following on behalf of the undersigned members/participants from the GNSO:
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------
>>> Dear CCWG-Accountability Chairs,
>>>
>>> We are very concerned with the response of the Board to the request for clarification regarding the need to adjust the thresholds for the Empowered Community to exercise its powers if the number of decisional participants is less than 5 SOACs. Currently the text in Annex 1 and 2 regarding this possibility is ambiguous:
>>>
>>> “The thresholds presented in this document were determined based on this assessment. If fewer than five of ICANN’s SOs and ACs agree to be decisional Participants, these thresholds for consensus support may be adjusted. Thresholds may also have to be adjusted if ICANN changes to have more SOs or ACs.”
>>>
>>> In our view, there is no question that the thresholds must be adjusted if there are fewer than five decisional participants. We have acknowledged repeatedly and operated under the assumption that there should not be a requirement of unanimous support for the Empowered Community to exercise its powers. Yet, if there are less than five decisional participants, unless the thresholds are adjusted it would require unanimous support for the Empowered Community to:
>>>
>>> · Reject a proposed Operating Plan/Strategic Plan/Budget;
>>> · Recall the entire Board of Directors; and
>>> · Reject an ICANN Board decision relating to reviews of IANA functions, including the triggering of any PTI separation process.
>>>
>>> These powers are central to ensuring that ICANN remains accountable to the Empowered Community. This matter is too critical to the primary purpose of the CCWG-Accountability proposal to remain unclear. As the Board has noted in its own formal comments, “Leaving this issue for future consideration raises the potential for renegotiation of the community thresholds. This potential for renegotiation adds a level of instability and a lack of predictability.”
>>>
>>> Although it has a superficial resemblance to the recent debate over thresholds in the GAC carve-out, we believe it is fundamentally different. There is a great distinction between an SO or AC choosing to not participate, and an SO or AC being blocked from participation in a specific instance, as was the case in the case of the GAC carve-out. We were willing to accept a unanimous threshold for Board recall in the unique circumstances of the GAC carve-out, where the GAC was blocked from participation, but we believe firmly that if any SO or AC elects, whether through a conscious decision or an inability to decide, to not participate, then the non-unanimity principle must be upheld.
>>>
>>> However, as we saw with the debate over the thresholds in the GAC carve-out, this could be a contentious issue. It is far better to resolve this matter now (and during the drafting of bylaws), prior to the official transfer of the proposal to NTIA, than to delay it when it could have significant negative ramifications on the transition through a failure to resolve it during the implementation phase.
>>>
>>> Therefore, we respectfully request that the current text in Annex 1 and Annex 2 be edited to replace “may” with “shall” and add an additional explanatory clause:
>>>
>>> “The thresholds presented in this document were determined based on this assessment. If fewer than five of ICANN’s SOs and ACs agree to be decisional Participants, these thresholds for consensus support shall be adjusted to prevent the need for unanimous support among the decisional Participants to exercise any of the seven Community powers. Thresholds may also have to be adjusted if ICANN changes to have more SOs or ACs.”
>>>
>>> Signed,
>>>
>>> Phil Corwin
>>> Steve DelBianco
>>> Keith Drazek
>>> James Gannon
>>> Robin Gross
>>> Ed Morris
>>> Brett Schaefer
>>> Greg Shatan
>>> Matthew Shears
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>
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