[CCWG-ACCT] [CCWG-Advisors] question regarding Global Public Interest

william currie willie.currie at gmail.com
Thu Jan 7 06:52:40 UTC 2016 

George

What I find disturbing is that every move the Board makes seems to be
designed to disrupt the CCWG's attempts to forge consensus on the
accountability proposal - this absurd GPI debate being the latest example.

When this happens repeatedly in a complex process, one begins to question
the bona fides of the actor concerned.

Willie

On Sun, Dec 27, 2015 at 10:48 PM, George Sadowsky <george.sadowsky at gmail.com
> wrote:

> No, Willie,
>
> It is not a joke.  The phrase "global public interest" and ICANN's
> responsibility for acting in a manner consistent with it, are mentioned a
> number of times in the Affirmation of Commitments, which is to be included
> in the revised bylaws.
>
> I find it really distressing that you think that the Board is joking in
> its contacts with the CCWG.
>
> George
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 27, 2015, at 12:49 PM, william currie <willie.currie at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> This is some kind of a joke from the Board, right?
>
> No one ever tries to define the public interest. It is what it is.
>
> Willie
>
> On Sunday, December 27, 2015, Nathalie Coupet via
> Accountability-Cross-Community <accountability-cross-community at icann.org>
> wrote:
>
>> +1 Kavouss
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Dec 27, 2015, at 9:54 AM, Kavouss Arasteh <kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> * Dear Milton,*
>> *I fully and wholeheartzedly Agree and support you *
>> I tries to put together something to show that is is absolutely
>> difficulté ,if not impossible to have anagreed definition for  Global
>> Public Interest.
>> From the text appears below you will note the difficulties and
>> impossibilities.
>> I DO NOT UNDERSTAND INSISTANCE OF SOME PEOPLE PUSHING TO HAVE A
>> DEFINITION , in particular, believing that the legal adviser s are miracle
>> makers
>> WE MUST ABBANDONE TAKING THAT PATH . This issue should be included in the
>> agenda of the 05 January call.
>> Legal Adviser are kindly requested to hold on the action on this issue
>> until the matter is discussed and agreed upon by CCWG
>> pLEASE FIND BELOW SOME WORDS IN THIS REGARD INDICATING THE DIFFICULTIES
>> TO TAKE SUCH APPROACH ( ATTEMPTING TO DEFINE GPI)
>> See Below
>>
>> *Global Public Interest composed of three words ; Global, Public and
>> Interest, each of which has some meaning and application in an discrete
>> fashion  as follows:  *
>>
>> *Some available definition of Global *
>>
>>    1.
>>
>>    Spherical <http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/spherical>
>>    : of, relating to, or involving the entire sphere
>>
>>
>>    1. Worldwide <http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/worldwide>
>>    :of, relating to, or involving the entire world :
>>    2. Universal <http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/universal>
>>    :of, relating to, or applying to a whole universe:
>>
>> *Some available Definition of Public *
>>
>>    1. exposed to general view :
>>    2. of, relating to, or affecting all the people or the whole area of
>>    a nation or state ; *public law*
>>    3. of or relating to a government ,  of, relating to, or being in the
>>    service of the community or nation
>>    4. of or relating to people in general
>>    5. of or relating to business or community interests as opposed to
>>    private affairs
>>    6. devoted to the general or national welfare
>>    7. accessible to or shared by all members of the community
>>    8. capitalized in shares that can be freely traded on the open market
>>    9. supported by public funds and private contributions rather than by
>>    income from commercials (*public radio>* *<public television)*
>>
>>
>>
>> *Examples of public*
>>
>>    1. *Public* outrage over the scandal eventually forced him to resign.
>>    2. The ads are intended to increase *public* awareness of the risks
>>    of smoking.
>>    3. She was elected to a *public* office.
>>    4. He was in Congress for many years but he recently retired from
>>    *public* life.
>>    5. They decided on a nearby restaurant as a convenient *public* place
>>    to meet.
>>    6. The government has allowed *public* access to the documents.
>>    7. The city council is holding a *public* meeting.
>>    8. This will be her first *public* performance in five years.
>>    9. Her trial will be *public*.
>>
>>
>>
>> *Use of term “Public”*
>>
>> *As a noun, the whole body politic, or the aggregate of the citizens of a
>> state, nation, or municipality. The community at large, without reference
>> to the geographical limits of any corporation like a city, town, or county;
>> the people.*
>>
>> *As an adjective, open to all; notorious. Open to common use. Belonging
>> to the people at large; relating to or affecting the whole people of a
>> state, nation, or community; not limited or restricted to any particular
>> class of the community.*
>>
>> *Further use of term “public”*
>>
>>    1.
>>
>>    as a noun
>>
>> The people of the nation, state, county, district or municipality, which
>> the government serves.
>>
>>    1.
>>
>>    as an adjective
>>
>> Referring to any agency, interest, property, or activity which is under
>> the authority of the government or which belongs to the people. This
>> distinguishes public from private interests as with public and private
>> schools, public and private utilities, public and private hospitals, public
>> and private lands, and public and private roads.
>>
>> *Some available definition  of Interest:*
>>
>> A feeling of wanting to learn more about something or to be involved in
>> something
>>
>> A quality that attracts your attention and makes you want to learn more
>> about something or to be involved in something
>>
>> Something (such as a hobby) that a person enjoys learning about or doing
>> Public Interest
>>
>> One of the simple definitions of Public interest could be:
>>
>> Anything affecting the rights, health, or finances of the public at
>> large.
>>
>> Public interest is a common concern among citizens in the management and
>> affairs of local, state, andnational government. It does not mean mere
>> curiosity but is a broad term that refers to the body politic and the
>> public weal. Apublic utility is regulated in the public interest because
>> private individuals rely on such a company for vital service
>>
>> *Can we define Public Interest in a broader/ general term?*
>>
>> From a broad perspective, it is not appropriate to believe that a
>> detailed general definition would serve a useful purpose: individual
>> circumstances are too variable and such a definition would inevitably
>> result in unintended and/or unanticipated or unexpected consequences. It
>> should be emphasize that when justifying an action as being in the public
>> interest
>>
>> Using such a framework will allow those advocating an action in the
>> public interest to understand what they mean, and, if explained, will allow
>> those assessing the action or proposal to determine whether they can
>> support the measure as being in the public interest.
>>
>> Another simple definition of public interest could be :
>>
>> Welfare the general public (in contrast to the selfish interest of a
>> person, group or firm) in which the whole society has a stake and which
>> warrants recognition, promotion and protection by the government and its
>> agencies. Despite the vagueness of the term, public interest is claimed
>> generally by governments in matters state secrecy and confidentiality. It
>> is approximated by comparing expected gains and potential costs or losses
>> associated with a decision, policy, program or project
>>
>> in acting in public interest,, each circumstance needs to be assessed
>> based on criteria such as the relevant public, wants, and constraints. The
>> key to assessing any public interest decision is transparency of the
>> decision-making process, including balancing competing interests.
>>
>> The term has grown working toward a multitude of objectives, including
>> civil rights, civil liberties, women’s rights, consumer rights,
>> environmental protection, and so on. Nevertheless, a common denominator for
>> public interest remains the ethic of “fighting for the little guy”—that is,
>> representing the underrepresented and vulnerable segments of society.
>> International law is one of the fastest growing legal fields. The types
>> of public service work and practice settings vary widely. The U.S.
>> Government hires attorneys to work on international issues in many of its
>> agencies, including the Department of State, the Department of Commerce and
>> the Environmental Protection Agency, to name just a few. Hundreds of
>> lawyers also work at the United Nations, the World Bank, the Organization
>> of American States, international tribunals, the International Criminal
>> Court and other intergovernmental organizations. Finally, there are
>> thousands of non-governmental organizations throughout the world that focus
>> on international issues, including but not limited to, development, human
>> rights, the environment law, energy, trade, arms control, and transitional
>> justice.
>> Another definition of Public Interest is :
>> 1. The welfare or well-being of the general public; commonwealth.
>> 2. Appeal or relevance to the general populace: a news story of public
>> interest."[ <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_interest#cite_note-1>
>> Public interest must be assessed impartially and, therefore, the public
>> interest could be defined as the "*ex ante*
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_ante> welfare of the representative
>> individual.", by assuming that there is an equal chance for one to be
>> anyone in society and, thus, could benefit or suffer from a change, the
>> public interest is by definition enhanced whenever that change is preferred
>> to the status quo *ex ante*. This approach is "*ex ante*", in the sense
>> that the change is not evaluated after the fact but assessed before the
>> fact without knowing whether one would actually benefit or suffer from it.
>>
>>
>> Now to have a general understanding of Global Public Interest ,one needs
>> to put a combination of the above simplified terms and definition
>> We then immediately find that it is " Mission Impobile"
>> Kavouss
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 2015-12-26 9:40 GMT+01:00 Kavouss Arasteh <kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com>:
>>
>>> Dear All,
>>> I also fully agree with Milton.
>>> If we remember, at the beginning of our work we attempted to find a
>>> possible description , and not definition as there would  be no
>>> Universally agreed definition for GPI, we concluded that we better not to
>>> follow that path.
>>> It is waste of time to re-start such useless work again thus question to
>>> lawyer MUST BE WITHDRAWN. If , and only if , the Lawyers find some thing ,
>>> that does not mean that we have to accept that just because it comes from
>>> lawyers.
>>> The GPI is one of the most complex and multidimensional as well as cross
>>> cutting cultural issue that will take us no where.
>>> The board MUST provide the basis under which it reject a given Rec. or
>>> part if the Rec. since we the CCWG do not hsve and certainly will not have
>>> an agreed definition for GPI.
>>> The CCWG must clearly mentions to ICANN Board that have serious concerns
>>> to accept rejection of any Rec. or part of  a Rec. on the ground of being
>>> in contradiction of GPI for which there is no definition.
>>> We SHALL NOT waste it time to define that nor accept any rejection by
>>> the Board on the ground of non- existence definition.
>>> We should all stop any imposition of any action from any source
>>> Kavouss
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On 26 Dec 2015, at 07:52, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I agree with Milton (and Alan).
>>>
>>> Greg
>>>
>>> On Friday, December 25, 2015, Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I find myself agreeing completely with Milton.
>>>>
>>>> Alan
>>>> --
>>>> Sent from my mobile. Please excuse brevity and typos.
>>>>
>>>> On December 25, 2015 8:46:35 PM EST, "Mueller, Milton L" <
>>>> milton at gatech.edu> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> MM: Thomas and all:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I appreciate your pushback on the board’s comments, but I think it is
>>>>> not helpful for the discussion to center on “definition of the global
>>>>> public interest.”
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> There is no definition, and even if we come up with some mutually
>>>>> acceptable verbal construction of what is in “the global public interest”
>>>>> there never will be easy agreement on how that definition is applied to
>>>>> any particular issue we have.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> For example, we may all agree that it is in the GPI for ICANN to be
>>>>> transparent, but still might disagree on finding the appropriate trade off
>>>>> between inspection rights and administrative burdens.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Let’s just accept the fact that the board has an interest in
>>>>> protecting the corporation and will argue from that perspective, and the
>>>>> rest of us have an interest in making the board accountable to the
>>>>> community and will assess issues from that perspective.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> When (or if – because it has not formally done so yet) the board votes
>>>>> that a particular recommendation is not in the GPI, let’s just interpret
>>>>> that as meaning the board doesn’t like it and won’t voluntarily go along
>>>>> with it. Then we have to decide whether to ignore that challenge and press
>>>>> ahead, or not.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Nothing in gained in that interaction by coming up with a verbal
>>>>> definition of GPI. But a lot of time could be wasted in the attempt.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --MM
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> We have asked the Board to provide information on what definition of
>>>>> the Global Public Interest it has used and what the rationale for their
>>>>> current assessment of our recommendations is. The answer to that question
>>>>> is still pending.
>>>>>
>>>>> However, we are reaching out to you now as we want to understand
>>>>> better the impact of Global Public Interest as we continue to work on our
>>>>> final recommendations. Our plan is to offer explanations in our final
>>>>> report where we speak to the Global Public Interest and why we are of the
>>>>> opinion that our recommendations in their final form are in the Global
>>>>> Public Interest.
>>>>>
>>>>> We would therefore appreciate your input at your earliest convenience
>>>>> on
>>>>>
>>>>> 1.      suggested definition(s) of the Global Public Interest that
>>>>> our group could use;
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. which of the recommendations in our 3rd report, if any, give raise
>>>>> Global Public Interest concerns according to your assessment; and
>>>>>
>>>>> 3. how you suggest we can resolve the Global Public Interest issues,
>>>>> which are identified.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you very much,  kind regards and a great holiday season,
>>>>> Mathieu Weill, Léon Sanchez, Thomas Rickert
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thomas Rickert
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *Rechtsanwalt*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> tel: +49.228.74 898.0
>>>>> fax: +49.228.74 898.66
>>>>> email: thomas at rickert.net
>>>>> web: rickert.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [image: Image removed by sender. image]
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> RICKERT Rechtsanwaltsgesellschaft m.b.H. (i.e. law firm)
>>>>> Kaiserplatz 7 - 9, 53113 Bonn, Germany
>>>>> HRB 9262, AG Bonn - GF/CEO: Thomas Rickert
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> CCWG-Advisors mailing list
>>>>> CCWG-Advisors at icann.org
>>>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-advisors
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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