[CCWG-ACCT] Recommendation 6 - Human Rights - 1st reading conclusions

Kavouss Arasteh kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com
Tue Jan 19 10:00:04 UTC 2016


Dear All,
Is the current provision relating to HR in the AoC DORMANT?
Regards
Kavouss

2016-01-19 10:50 GMT+01:00 Niels ten Oever <lists at nielstenoever.net>:

> Hi Greg,
>
> On 01/19/2016 07:11 AM, Greg Shatan wrote:
> > I'm not sure that all of the 3 alternatives are so "clear cut."
> >
> > Does alternative "a" drop the transitional Bylaw that's in the Third
> > Draft Proposal?
>
> No
>
> > If not, what effect does the transitional bylaw have?
> >
>
> It ensures that a framwork of interpretation will be made.
>
> > Alternative "b" seems fairly clear.
> >
> > Alternative "c" seems closest to the Third Draft Proposal, with the
> > benefit that it clarifies the effect of the transitional bylaw.  (As of
> > now, the effect of the transitional bylaw on whether the Human Rights
> > bylaw is "open for business" is not as clear as it should be.)
> >
>
> Disagree. Option C makes the bylaw dormant which was not the case in the
> Third Draft Proposal.
>
> That was the proposal of (your) minority opinion.
>
> > If alternative "a" clearly means that the Human Rights bylaw is "open
> > for business," and that ICANN must abide by the bylaw, and that SO/ACs
> > must abide by the bylaw, and that ICANN can be taken to task for failing
> > to abide by the bylaw (up to and including an IRP), all without the
> > Framework of Interpretation -- then I have some considerable sympathy
> > for the concerns raised by Paul and by the Board.
> >
> > If the Bylaw is "open for business," then an /ad hoc/ series of
> > discussions about interpretation and therefore an /ad hoc/ set of
> > interpretations will develop out of necessity, and in many cases those
> > discussions will be held within ICANN the corporation and between ICANN
> > the corporation and its counsel.  At the same time, there may be efforts
> > in various parts of the community (having nothing to do with WS2) to
> > react to Board and staff actions or to proactively provide viewpoints to
> > the Board and staff.  This will just be a free-for-all.  By the time the
> > formal efforts in WS2 are brought forth, these results will have to
> > supplant or compete with or try to somehow harmonize with all of these
> > /ad hoc /efforts.  What a mess that would be.
>
> I don't think human rights are that open for interpretation as is
> sketched here.
>
> >
> > The only way to hold back the /ad hoc/ growth of interpretive bits and
> > pieces, is for the Bylaw not to be effective until the Framework of
> > Interpretation is in place.  Some may argue that this was the intent of
> > the transitional bylaw, though perhaps inartfully drafted.  Others may
> > argue that the transitional bylaw means something different (not quite
> > sure what, though).
>
> Ensuring the development of an FoI in WS2
>
> >
> > Alternative "c" gives us the powerful symbolism of having the HR Bylaw
> > in place, even while the road to effectiveness is still being built.  (I
> > would argue that this is what we have in the Third Draft Proposal,
> > subject to clearing up ambiguities, but others may differ.)
>
> But no guarantee that the road _will_ actually be built.
>
> >
> > On the other hand, the WS2 process may give us all a better idea of how
> > to craft the Bylaw, which could give us the peculiar result that the HR
> > Bylaw could be amended before it is even effective.  This seems to argue
> > in favor of alternative "b," since there is little point in having an
> > "unripe" and dormant Bylaw that is unlikely to be effective "as is."
> >  That said, alternative "c" does provide the symbolism of an HR bylaw
> > and the assurance that the bylaw is "in" (even if not "open for
> business").
> >
> > I think we need to sharpen these alternatives a bit more; I hope this
> > will happen very shortly, so we can set the course from here.
> >
>
> Happy to disuss.
>
> Best,
>
> Niels
>
> > Greg
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 6:51 AM, Nigel Roberts <nigel at channelisles.net
> > <mailto:nigel at channelisles.net>> wrote:
> >
> >     Or to put it another way,
> >
> >     to have our minds changed for us.
> >
> >
> >
> >     On 18/01/16 10:09, Jorge.Cancio at bakom.admin.ch
> >     <mailto:Jorge.Cancio at bakom.admin.ch> wrote:
> >
> >         Dear all
> >
> >         I agree. It would be tantamount to forgetting the hard work and
> long
> >         discussions had in WP4.
> >
> >         Regards
> >
> >         Jorge
> >
> >         *Von:*accountability-cross-community-bounces at icann.org
> >         <mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces at icann.org>
> >         [mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces at icann.org
> >         <mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces at icann.org>] *Im
> >         Auftrag
> >         von * Dr. Tatiana Tropina
> >         *Gesendet:* Montag, 18. Januar 2016 11:00
> >         *An:* accountability-cross-community at icann.org
> >         <mailto:accountability-cross-community at icann.org>
> >         *Betreff:* Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Recommendation 6 - Human Rights - 1st
> >         reading
> >
> >         conclusions
> >
> >         Dear all,
> >         Sorry I found that I missed an important word in my previous
> >         email and
> >         think this can lead to misunderstanding.
> >         I meant there was "NO real dialogue" on consumer trust outside
> >         of the
> >         new gTLD discussions, while HR have been discussed extensively
> >         at WP4
> >         and CCWG.
> >         Thus, we can't compare consumer trust and HR as re what shall be
> >         moved
> >         to WS2 completely.
> >         Best
> >         Tatiana
> >
> >         On 18/01/16 10:45, Dr. Tatiana Tropina wrote:
> >
> >             Dear Paul,
> >             To answer your question
> >
> >             On 18/01/16 08:57, Paul Szyndler wrote:
> >
> >                 Further, what distinguishes the conversation of human
> rights
> >                 from our recent discussion on consumer trust?
> >
> >             The difference is, as it was pointed in the thread on
> "Christmas
> >             Trees and Consumer Trust", that human rights have been
> >         extensively
> >             discussed during the preparation of the Third Draft Proposal
> >         at the
> >             WP4 and CCWG, while there has been a real dialogue on
> >         consumer trust
> >             outside of the new gTLD review discussions.
> >             I think comparing human rights issues and implications to the
> >             discussion on consumer trust is not feasible - neither in the
> >             context of this group nor in the broader context. WP4 has
> >         achieved
> >             its a compromise and suggested the bylaw language after
> >         extensive
> >             discussions, so moving the issue of human rights completely
> >         to WS2
> >             is not justified - at least not if one uses comparison with
> >         consumer
> >             trust issues for such justification.
> >             Best regards
> >             Tatiana
> >
> >
> >
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> >
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> >         <mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community at icann.org>>
> >
> >
> >
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> >
> >
> >
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> --
> Niels ten Oever
> Head of Digital
>
> Article 19
> www.article19.org
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