[CCWG-ACCT] Proposed Agenda CCWG ACCT Meeting - 12 July 2016 @ 20:00 UTC
Shreedeep Rayamajhi
rayamajhishreedeep at gmail.com
Fri Jul 15 12:39:00 UTC 2016
Agree with Keith
On 15 Jul 2016 6:04 pm, "James M. Bladel" <jbladel at godaddy.com> wrote:
> Agree with Keith.
>
> CCWG must preserve the use of independent legal advisors, but use this
> responsibly, and with an eye on controlling costs. Ultimately, it is gTLD
> registrants picking up the bill, and we need to ensure that this work is
> mindful of their interests.
>
> Thanks—
>
> J.
>
> From: <accountability-cross-community-bounces at icann.org> on behalf of
> Keith Drazek <kdrazek at verisign.com>
> Date: Thursday, July 14, 2016 at 16:53
> To: Phil Corwin <psc at vlaw-dc.com>, Matthew Shears <mshears at cdt.org>, Greg
> Shatan <gregshatanipc at gmail.com>, Robin Gross <robin at ipjustice.org>
> Cc: Accountability Cross Community <
> accountability-cross-community at icann.org>
> Subject: Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Proposed Agenda CCWG ACCT Meeting - 12 July 2016
> @ 20:00 UTC
>
> Agreed. Access to independent legal advice was never in question.
>
>
>
> That said, in the interest of controlling costs, I have no problem seeking
> input from ICANN’s internal lawyers on issues that are deemed
> non-contentious or where potential conflicts do not exist.
>
>
>
> I am obligated to report that the Registries Stakeholder Group is very,
> very concerned about the cost of legal fees from WS1 and wants to ensure
> the CCWG is efficient with its future spending. I know we’re developing
> cost-control mechanisms for WS2, and I’ve advised my SG accordingly, but
> this will continue to receive attention from the RySG.
>
>
>
> Holly’s question and the response about budgeting vis-à-vis ICANN’s
> outside counsel was instructive. Any and all outside counsel expenses will
> require certification.
>
>
>
> So, let me reiterate my view…the CCWG must have access to independent
> legal advice. We must ensure costs are controlled and resources are used
> efficiently. If that means selectively turning to ICANN’s lawyers on
> occasion, I can and do support that, but not at the expense of our ability
> to seek independent advice.
>
>
>
> Regards,
> Keith
>
>
>
> *From:* accountability-cross-community-bounces at icann.org [
> mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces at icann.org
> <accountability-cross-community-bounces at icann.org>] *On Behalf Of *Phil
> Corwin
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 14, 2016 5:34 PM
> *To:* Matthew Shears; Greg Shatan; Robin Gross
> *Cc:* Accountability Cross Community
> *Subject:* Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Proposed Agenda CCWG ACCT Meeting - 12 July
> 2016 @ 20:00 UTC
>
>
>
> Access to independent legal advice for WS2 issues is fundamental and
> should be non-negotiable
>
>
>
> Use your power, Empowered Community
>
>
>
> Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal
> Virtualaw LLC
> 1155 F Street NW
> Suite 1050
> Washington, DC 20004
> 202-559-8597/Direct
> 202-559-8750/Fax
> 202-255-6172/Cell
>
> Twitter: @VlawDC
>
> "Luck is the residue of design" --- Branch Rickey
>
> *From:*mshears at cdt.org
>
> *Sent:*July 14, 2016 5:26 PM
>
> *To:*gregshatanipc at gmail.com; robin at ipjustice.org
>
> *Cc:*accountability-cross-community at icann.org
>
> *Subject:*Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Proposed Agenda CCWG ACCT Meeting - 12 July
> 2016 @ 20:00 UTC
>
>
>
> + 1 well said Robin.
>
>
>
> On 14/07/2016 03:20, Greg Shatan wrote:
>
> Robin,
>
>
>
> Agree 100%.
>
>
>
> Greg
>
> On Wednesday, July 13, 2016, Robin Gross <robin at ipjustice.org> wrote:
>
> It is simply a non-starter to suggest that CCWG would lose its right to
> independent counsel at this stage. I am struggling to understand *where*
> the suggestion to start this debate all over again even came from. We have
> very important issues on our agenda for WorkStream 2 that require
> independence of legal advice: transparency of board deliberations,
> reforming the DIDP, the CEP, etc., which all involve trying to reform the
> policies that were created by the in-house legal dept. It is silly to
> suggest that we must seek the legal advice from those who created the
> policies we are trying to reform as that would be counter-productive to our
> goals.
>
> Additionally it was revealed in yesterday’s calls, that ICANN’s legal dept
> fees will be added to the CCWG’s independent fees, so CCWG will be billed
> for the in-house efforts to resist our reforms (and we won’t be given
> access to the legal advice that we would be paying for). I think it is
> extremely important the legal fees NOT be conflated together. We need to
> understand what the separate costs are, and we cannot be held responsible
> for spending on Jones Day that is outside of our control. Fees that ICANN
> corporate undertakes must be separated from fees that CCWG undertakes or
> the proposed budget process makes absolutely no sense, unless it was
> intended to tie CCWG’s hands and give ICANN corporate a blank check to
> spend resisting our reforms.
>
> This is an important issue that we cannot roll over on, or everything else
> we try to do from here on out will be of questionable value. This settled
> debate should not be re-opened, despite the huge win for ICANN corporate if
> were to succeed in over-turning this group’s previous decision on this
> critical matter of independence of legal advice.
>
> Thanks,
> Robin
>
>
>
> > On Jul 13, 2016, at 2:06 PM, Niels ten Oever <lists at nielstenoever.net>
> wrote:
> >
> > Also +1 to Greg and +1 to James
> >
> > On 07/13/2016 10:50 PM, Dr. Tatiana Tropina wrote:
> >> Thanks, Greg. +1. Fully agree.
> >>
> >> CCWG shall retain the ability to ask for independent advice. Also agree
> >> that continuing with Sidley Austin and Adler & Colvin is the best
> option.
> >>
> >> + 1 also to James previous email about not reopening the debate.
> >>
> >> Best,
> >>
> >> Tanya
> >>
> >>
> >> On 13/07/16 22:42, Greg Shatan wrote:
> >>> Siva,
> >>>
> >>> The reasons are all in the record. Please go back and read all of the
> >>> materials and discussions relating to our desire and choice to hire
> >>> independent counsel. If you have any specific questions after that,
> >>> please ask them.
> >>>
> >>> I will briefly say the following:
> >>>
> >>> 1. This has nothing to do with competence, although being generally
> >>> competent and competent in a specific area are two different things.
> >>>
> >>> 2. Where we needed first-hand knowledge or history, we've turned to
> >>> ICANN legal as one source for such things. That won't change. Advice
> >>> is another thing entirely.
> >>>
> >>> 3. Ask yourself "Who is ICANN legal's client?" and you will have
> >>> answered your own question.
> >>>
> >>> Greg
> >>>
> >>> On Wednesday, July 13, 2016, Sivasubramanian M <isolatedn at gmail.com
> >>> <mailto:isolatedn at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Greg,
> >>>
> >>> How valid are your assumptions? What are the reasons for this
> >>> unwillingness to make use of ICANN Legal, who are competent, have
> >>> first hand knowledge and a complete understanding of the legal
> >>> nuances on matters concerning ICANN, may I ask? Saves money on
> >>> most matters requiring legal advice, and should there be areas
> >>> that require specialized advice, we could seek external advice.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 12:28 AM, Greg Shatan
> >>> <gregshatanipc at gmail.com
> >>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','gregshatanipc at gmail.com');>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I object, and I think many others objected, to the idea that
> >>> advice from inhouse (i.e., ICANN legal) should be the
> >>> "default." We retained independent counsel to the CCWG for
> >>> good reason
> >>> s
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> and those reasons are still applicable today. I hope we don't
> >>> need to rehash that.
> >>>
> >>> We need the continued ability and discretion to go directly to
> >>> CCWG's counsel. Requesting inhouse to solicit an opinion from
> >>> an external counsel is not only "cumbersome," it's absolutely
> >>> antithetical to the relationship between CCWG and its
> >>> independent counsel.
> >>>
> >>> I strongly believe that the "default" must be the status quo,
> >>> i.e., that the CCWG (through reasonable processes) has the
> >>> ability and discretion to turn to its own counsel. Further, I
> >>> strongly believe that CCWG's independent counsel must remain
> >>> Sidley Austin and Adler & Colvin. They have been up a
> >>> tremendous learning curve and worked with us every step of the
> >>> way. It would be folly to cast that aside. It's worth noting
> >>> that Sidley is a full-service law firm with offices outside
> >>> the US in Beijing, Brussels, Geneva, Hong Kong, London,
> >>> Munich, Shanghai, Singapore, Sydney and Tokyo. I'm confident
> >>> that Sidley (and Adler) will (a) tell us when they don't have
> >>> the expertise to help us, and (b) work with us on working
> >>> methods to make our use of the firms more cost-effective.
> >>>
> >>> Greg
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 9:22 PM, Rudolph Daniel
> >>> <rudi.daniel at gmail.com
> >>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','rudi.daniel at gmail.com');>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Based on comments on the call today, IMO; A good body of
> >>> knowledge was accquired on the subject of legal requests
> >>> in wg1. WG2 legal resources would be both inhouse and
> >>> external, from start, We should be much more efficient
> >>> this time around. Each sub however will have their needs
> >>> and there may be requests applicable across the subgroups
> >>> and/or specific to a subgroup.
> >>> So, that suggests close relationship between budget
> >>> control and the former legal request team [reconfigured
> >>> and/or augmented] who would have to coordinate requests
> >>> across ws2 sub
> >>> groups as i see it.
> >>> What determines the initial choice inhouse/external
> >>> resources may be a matter of consensus, but it may be
> >>> prudent to consider the process as [default] inhouse with
> >>> the flexible and necessary option of external sources by
> >>> consensus [as the fog clears so to speak]. I think it may
> >>> be cumbersome to request inhouse to solicit an opinion
> >>> from an external, because there may arise an instance
> >>> where; on the strength of an opinion, [inhouse or
> >>> external] ; a wg2 may wish to reframe and seek
> >>> alternative advise elswhere.
> >>> rd
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Rudi Daniel
> >>> /danielcharles consulting
> >>> <
> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Kingstown-Saint-Vincent-and-the-Grenadines/DanielCharles/153611257984774
> >/
> >>> *
> >>> *
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 7:21 PM, Vinay Kesari
> >>> <vinay.kesari at gmail.com
> >>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','vinay.kesari at gmail.com');>>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Dear all,
> >>>
> >>> I was unfortunately unable to join the call as I was
> >>> on a flight at the time, my apologies. I've just had a
> >>> chance to catch up on the Adobe Connect recording, and
> >>> I'm happy to reconfirm my willingness and availability
> >>> to serve as a rapporteur. Also, I agree with the
> >>> thrust of Kavouss' comment at 0:24:30, and affirm my
> >>> commitment to serve impartially. I look forward to
> >>> working with Greg on the jurisdiction subgroup.
> >>>
> >>> Separately, on the issue of allocation of legal
> >>> requests, I agree that we need further discussion, and
> >>> endorse creating an Option 3 based on the points made
> >>> and the specific requirements of the different WS2
> >>> subgroups.
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>> Vinay
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 12 July 2016 at 20:55, Mathieu Weill
> >>> <mathieu.weill at afnic.fr
> >>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','mathieu.weill at afnic.fr
> ');>>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Dear Colleagues,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Attached is a short set of slides to support our
> >>> discussion on agenda item #4
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Talk to you in a few hours
> >>>
> >>> Mathieu
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> *De :*
> accountability-cross-community-bounces at icann.org
> >>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','
> accountability-cross-community-bounces at icann.org');>
> >>> [mailto:
> accountability-cross-community-bounces at icann.org
> >>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','
> accountability-cross-community-bounces at icann.org');>]
> >>> *De la part de* MSSI Secretariat
> >>> *Envoyé :* lundi 11 juillet 2016 19:46
> >>> *À :* CCWG-Accountability
> >>> *Objet :* [CCWG-ACCT] Proposed Agenda CCWG ACCT
> >>> Meeting - 12 July 2016 @ 20:00 UTC
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Good day all,
> >>>
> >>> In preparation for your call, CCWG Accountability
> >>> WS2 Meeting #2
> >>> <https://community.icann.org/x/FyOOAw>– Tuesday,
> >>> 12 July @ 20:00 – 22:00 UTC. Time zone converter
> >>> here
> >>> <
> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=CCWG+Accountability+Meeting&iso=20160712T20&p1=1440&ah=2
> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> *Proposed Agenda:*
> >>>
> >>> 1. Welcome, SOI
> >>>
> >>> 2.
> >>> Articles of Incorporation : finalize submission
> >>>
> >>> 3.
> >>> Appointment of rapporteurs for WS2 – next steps
> >>>
> >>> 4.
> >>> Legal Cost Control Mechanism : initial discussion
> >>>
> >>> 5. AOB
> >>>
> >>> 6. Closing
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> *Adobe Connect:
> >>> *https://icann.adobeconnect.com/accountability/
> >>> <https://icann.adobeconnect.com/accountability/>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Thank you!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> With kind regards,
> >>>
> >>> Brenda Brewer
> >>>
> >>> MSSI Projects & Operations Assistant
> >>>
> >>> ICANN-**Internet Corporation for Assigned Names
> >>> and Numbers
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>
> >>>
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> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Sivasubramanian M <
> https://www.facebook.com/sivasubramanian.muthusamy>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >>
> >>
> >>
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> >
> > --
> > Niels ten Oever
> > Head of Digital
> >
> > Article 19
> > www.article19.org
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> --
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>
>
> --------------
>
> Matthew Shears
>
> Global Internet Policy and Human Rights
>
> Center for Democracy & Technology (CDT)
>
> + 44 771 2472987
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