[CCWG-ACCT] [bylaws-coord] Lawyers Comments and Concerns re CCWG Comment - Version 2

Fri May 13 12:04:19 UTC 2016

I agree

jg

From: <accountability-cross-community-bounces at icann.org<mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces at icann.org>> on behalf of León Felipe Sánchez Ambía <leonfelipe at sanchez.mx<mailto:leonfelipe at sanchez.mx>>
Date: Friday 13 May 2016 at 13:01
To: Thomas Rickert <thomas at rickert.net<mailto:thomas at rickert.net>>
Cc: ICANN-Adler <ICANN at adlercolvin.com<mailto:ICANN at adlercolvin.com>>, Accountability Cross Community <accountability-cross-community at icann.org<mailto:accountability-cross-community at icann.org>>, Sidley ICANN CCWG <sidleyicannccwg at sidley.com<mailto:sidleyicannccwg at sidley.com>>, "ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org<mailto:ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org>" <ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org<mailto:ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org>>, "bylaws-coord at icann.org<mailto:bylaws-coord at icann.org>" <bylaws-coord at icann.org<mailto:bylaws-coord at icann.org>>
Subject: Re: [CCWG-ACCT] [bylaws-coord] Lawyers Comments and Concerns re CCWG Comment - Version 2

My understanding too

Saludos,

León

El may 13, 2016, a las 2:37 AM, Thomas Rickert <thomas at rickert.net<mailto:thomas at rickert.net>> escribió:

That is my understanding, yes!

Thomas

Thomas Rickert
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RICKERT Rechtsanwaltsgesellschaft m.b.H. (i.e. law firm)
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Am 13.05.2016 um 08:37 schrieb Mathieu Weill <mathieu.weill at afnic.fr<mailto:mathieu.weill at afnic.fr>>:

Hi all,

So, to be clear, what is requested here is to add the following sentence at the end of item 2.3 :

As a consequence, our group’s recommendation is to remove provisions B, C, D and  E of Section 1.1 (d)(ii).

Is that correct ?

Best
Mathieu

De : bylaws-coord-bounces at icann.org<mailto:bylaws-coord-bounces at icann.org> [mailto:bylaws-coord-bounces at icann.org] De la part de Greg Shatan
Envoyé : jeudi 12 mai 2016 21:28
À : Gregory, Holly
Cc : ICANN-Adler; accountability-cross-community at icann.org<mailto:accountability-cross-community at icann.org>; Sidley ICANN CCWG; ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org<mailto:ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org>; bylaws-coord at icann.org<mailto:bylaws-coord at icann.org>; Seun Ojedeji
Objet : Re: [bylaws-coord] [CCWG-ACCT] Lawyers Comments and Concerns re CCWG Comment - Version 2

I think this reflects an issue in the drafting process for the comment, which resulted in several less-than-perfect translations of the CCWG's decisions into the draft comment.  That's why we have an iterative process of review and comment, since we can't all be part of the process where the words are first being put on the "page" (screen).  It would be a mistake to take the draft comment as gospel.  This is not to impugn the efforts of those involved.  We are all running hard and fast, and that means that you have to circle back and fix something a little more often than if you were in a relaxed work mode.

Greg

On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 2:02 PM, Gregory, Holly <holly.gregory at sidley.com<mailto:holly.gregory at sidley.com>> wrote:

We reiterate:  if the instruction is to remove the language then the recommendation should be to remove the language.

Sent with Good (www.good.com<http://www.good.com/>)

________________________________
From: Seun Ojedeji
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 12:55:29 PM
To: Andrew Sullivan
Cc: Rosemary E. Fei; Thomas Rickert; ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org<mailto:ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org>; bylaws-coord at icann.org<mailto:bylaws-coord at icann.org>; Sidley ICANN CCWG; accountability-cross-community at icann.org<mailto:accountability-cross-community at icann.org>; ICANN-Adler

Subject: Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Lawyers Comments and Concerns re CCWG Comment - Version 2

+1 but it's certainly the Chair's call to communicate the needful to the legal team.

Regards

Sent from my LG G4
Kindly excuse brevity and typos

On 12 May 2016 17:27, "Andrew Sullivan" <ajs at anvilwalrusden.com<mailto:ajs at anvilwalrusden.com>> wrote:
Thanks.  FWIW, I certainly think the text should say, "Remove this."

A

On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 04:25:18PM +0000, Rosemary E. Fei wrote:
> Dear All:
>
> I have to second Holly's response here.  I, too, read the recommendation in the CCWG's draft public comment, and wondered why it didn't just say "remove".  If it had, we would not have asked for clarification.  What we did not understand, and what was obscure to us, was why that was not the recommendation, given the content of the rest of the comment.
>
> To be clear, we have no objection on legal grounds to removing the items of concern from grandfathering, as long as that is what the CCWG agrees should be done.
>
> Rosemary
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andrew Sullivan [mailto:ajs at anvilwalrusden.com<mailto:ajs at anvilwalrusden.com>]
> Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 7:58 AM
> To: Holly Gregory
> Cc: 'leonfelipe at sanchez.mx<mailto:leonfelipe at sanchez.mx>'; 'Mathieu Weill'; 'thomas at rickert.net<mailto:thomas at rickert.net>'; ICANN-Adler; 'accountability-cross-community at icann.org<mailto:accountability-cross-community at icann.org>'; Sidley ICANN CCWG; 'ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org<mailto:ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org>'; 'bylaws-coord at icann.org<mailto:bylaws-coord at icann.org>'
> Subject: Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Lawyers Comments and Concerns re CCWG Comment - Version 2
>
> Hi,
>
> On comment 2 in this comments-on-the-comment document, it says this:
>
>     Lawyers’ comment: What is the recommendation and what direction is
>     the CCWG-Accountability providing to the legal drafters? In our
>     May 7, 2016 comments on the draft CCWG-Accountability comment
>     letter, we suggested a recommendation: “We request that the groups
>     most directly involved with the documents addressed in subsections
>     (B) through (E) weigh in on the need to include grandfathering
>     language for those documents. Depending on such input, a final
>     determination should be made as to whether those documents should
>     be included in the grandfathering provision.”
>
> I don't get what's obscure here.  The CCWG's comment is that the mentioned subsections have no justification in the CCWG Proposal.
> There's precisely one thing to do in such a case: remove the subsection.  It would be helpful, at least to me, to understand why the drafters do not understand this.
>
> The time for substantive change to the Proposal is over.  If the Proposal has deficiencies, we will have to cope with them later.  The task is to implement the Proposal in bylaws language, and that's it.
> Anything not founded in either the Proposal or the facts of relevant law is not something that should appear in any changed bylaws text.
> The community consensus must be treated as fundamental, or all legitimacy of this process will be lost.
>
> Best regards,
>
> A
>
> --
> Andrew Sullivan
> ajs at anvilwalrusden.com<mailto:ajs at anvilwalrusden.com>
>

--
Andrew Sullivan
ajs at anvilwalrusden.com<mailto:ajs at anvilwalrusden.com>
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