[CCWG-ACCT] Notes, recordings and transcript for WS2 Human Rights Subgroup Meeting # 24 | 27 March 2017

[MSSI Secretariat]

Hello all,

Please see the notes, recordings, and transcript for the CCWG Accountability WS2 Human Rights Subgroup Meeting #24 here; https://community.icann.org/x/3rnRAw
A copy of the notes may be found below.

Thank you.

With kind regards,
Brenda Brewer, Projects & Operations Assistant
Multistakeholder Strategy & Strategic Initiatives (MSSI)
Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN)
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Notes (includes relevant text from chat):
15 participants at start of call
1. Administrivia - Roll call, absentees, SoIs, etc
Niels ten Oever - Changes to SOI? (none). Any issues to agenda? (none)
2. Continued First Reading (of two) of the Considerations document
Niels ten Oever - (continuing where we left off last week - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rDYyuXacrSYDtlSK5JqNQe7XOX2LbM86AzfDay8zpoE/edit )
Niels ten Oever - (strating from The Policies and frameworks.....- reading text of proposal).
Para 1 comments? (none).
Para 2 comments?
Anne Aikman-Scalese (IPC): As per Niels, to be added at the end of this paragraph:  "Human Rights should not be selectively analyzed since they are universal, indivisible, interdependent, and interrelated."
Kavouss Arasteh - re INAPPROPRIATE suggest use another word - DOES NOT SEEM TO BE APPROPRIATE HERE or NOT RELEVANT HERE.
Tatiana Tropina: "not relevant in the context of this FoI"
Tatiana Tropina: or doesn’t not fit for the purpose of this FoE
Anne Aikman-Scalese (IPC): Agree with Tatiana's suggestion on this
Tatiana Tropina: I can live with this, agree with Kavouss to replace
Anne Aikman-Scalese - my suggestion above seems to go somewhere else?
Niels ten Oever - correct 2 paras down.
Greg Shatan - re INNAPROPRIATE would prefer to simply add HERE. Re AAS suggestion - better to say it here? cannot just apply suggestion to HRIA - so should probably be here and not later or here and later.
John Laprise: Agree w/Greg
Niels ten Oever: Text to which Greg and Anne are referring:
Niels ten Oever: Human Rights should not be selectively analyzed since they are universal, indivisible, interdependent, and interrelated. could agree to put it either or in both.
Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland): is "analyzed" the right word?
Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland): or should we use "considered"?
Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland): "should not be considered in isolation, since they are..."
Tatiana Tropina - NOT APPROPRIATE -
Niels ten Oever: The subgroup notes that the word “commitment” used in this sentence is not appropriate of interpreting the Human Rights Core Value.
Tatiana Tropina: in the conext of interpreting HR CV
Kavouss Arasteh -  Do agree with GS word. Support JC proposal.
Niels ten Oever: The subgroup notes that the word “commitment” used in this sentence is not quite appropriate for interpreting the Human Rights Core Value. Seems to be acceptable (no objections).
Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland): full text for the non-cherry-picking: "Human Rights should not be considered in isolation since they are universal, indivisible, interdependent, and interrelated."
Niels ten Oever - JC text could be added at the end.
Anne Aikman-Scalese - fine with JC language. Also like TT languae before.
Tatiana Tropina: I am comfortable with no cherry picking clause. I would avoid proportionality as it's up to courts and it is a very complex issue - we have to get to the weeds and will never come back. But am comfortable with cherry picking.
Greg Shatan - re JC text - need to say EACH or individual - best to try using the language in Annex 6 which is consensus language.
Andrew Mack: individual human rights should not be considered separately
Andrew Mack: ?
Tatiana Tropina: Individual human rights has double meaning in this context
Anne Aikman-Scalese (IPC): Good point Tatiana
Tatiana Tropina: Might be considered as human rights of an individual
Andrew Mack: yes Tatiana
Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland): "discrete" is so awful?
Tatiana Tropina: "No specific human right shall be considered in isolation"
Greg Shatan - that would work.
Kavouss Arasteh - do not understand why we need specific. Disagree with this. Agree with PARTICULAR but not SPECIFIC.
Niels ten Oever: Particular Human Rights should not be considered in isolation since they are universal, indivisible, interdependent, and interrelated.
Andrew Mack: either seems ok to me
Niels ten Oever - Next para "consistent with ICANN's existing processes and...."
Kavouss Arasteh - re gNSO portion just "allow" seems wrong should be " should or shall or must allow".
Tatiana Tropina: expected to allow
Tatiana Tropina: me likes.
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):  it does already allow by the way
Anne Aikman-Scalese - re CLO because the PDP says it must already.
Markus Kummer - since the Bylaws say Allow lets keep it as is.
Kavouss Arasteh - are we discussing the FOI or the PDP. If we use the PDP then let us quote and identify it.
Anne Aikman-Scalese (IPC): We could say "The GNSO Policy Development Process" provides for
Greg Shatan - Agree with AAS.
Tatiana Tropina: I agree with Anne
Tatiana Tropina: it should address Kavouss concern, too - no?
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): yup
Kavouss Arasteh - Agree with AAS suggestion.
Neils ten Oever - next para "consider how the interpretation and implementation....".
Anne Aikman-Scalese (IPC): One suggestion here to avoid the issue of "principles of proportionality" expressed in the drafting team is to do this:"HRIAs should avoid "cherry-picking" and should honor the principle that Human Rights are indivisible and interdependent."
Kavouss Arasteh - cannot understand AAS proposal - why do we need this?
Tatiana Tropina: I like Anne's compromise. Honoring the invisibility and interdependency is ol
Anne Aikman-Scalese - could agree with KA - we could go back to the original language.
Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland): could we refer back to the language we agreed just before?
tatiana Tropina - like AAS compromise - uncertain about the word "principal". will put my suggestion from the chat.
Niels ten Oever: HRIA should consider not consider Human Rights in isolation since they are universal, indivisible, interdependent, and interrelated.
Niels ten Oever: HRIA should not consider Human Rights in isolation since they are universal, indivisible, interdependent, and interrelated.
Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland): HRIA should be consistent with the principle that specific Human Rights should not be considered in isolation since they are universal, indivisible, interdependent, and interrelated.
Tatiana Tropina: yes we can do that as well - Anne?
Anne Aikman-Scalese (IPC): should not consider "particular" Human rights
Niels ten Oever: HRIA should not consider particular Human Rights in isolation since they are universal, indivisible, interdependent, and interrelated.
Niels ten Oever: HRIAs should not consider particular Human Rights in isolation since they are universal, indivisible, interdependent, and interrelated.
Tatiana Tropina: yes am very happy too. I can't believe my ears and eyes
Anne Aikam-Scalese - Drafting team note that there is a need to have a mechanism to consider how to address HR violations. Uncertain where it goes.
Greg Shatan - where "policies and processes ICANN needs to implement..."
Niels ten Oever - lets take this to the drafting team and review on our call next week.
Jorge Cancio (GAC Switzerland): agree with Niels
Greg Shatan: +1
Kavouss Arasteh - Re from GAC meeting - do not see all SOACs the same and not pick on GAc only.
Niels ten Oever - thought it was fixed - if not lets discuss on list. KA please send to list. Ajourned.




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