[CCWG-ACCT] SOAC Accountability group in CCWG WS2 - report after plenary 2nd reading, on 29-Mar-2017

Thu Mar 30 12:52:29 UTC 2017

Kavouss,

 I am struggling with understanding what you mean by "I feel disappointed
that the two co- chairs warm -up you to scrutinize my statement. " you mean
Cheryl and Steve warmed me up (encouraged?)  to scrutinize your statement?
Remember that I am a co-rapporteur too, wrote many aspects of the document
of soac accountability, and also may I remind you that I can have opinions
of my own.  It  is very disappointing that you don't think that and I think
the one person in this group that should reconsider his behavior is you
Kavouss.

You have changed your position on MAR. That's fine. But I think it was
totally fair to ask if this was GAC opinion or your opinion which has
changed. Which you clarified. I also think that it is fair to ask to
provide a rationale for the shift in your position and point us to what
situation has evolved. You don't have to answer though. I just wanted the
group to know that you were championing a very different position
repeatedly and  for a long time and there was a sudden shift in your
position. It is up to you to provide a reason for such shift other than the
vague statement that "the situation has evolved".

Farzaneh

On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 8:36 AM, Arasteh <kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com> wrote:

> Farzaneh
> Tks
> The situation has evolved.
> I did not speak for GAC at that time nor do I speak now.
> When referred to GAC it was merely indicating that I am not observer but a
> member
> I feel disappointed that the two co- chairs warm -up you to scrutinize my
> statement.
> I di not appreciate that at all.
>  You should act  as you believe and as you think with full integrity.
> Pls reconsider your actions and behavior
> Best regards
> Kavouss.
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 30 Mar 2017, at 14:25, farzaneh badii <farzaneh.badii at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Kavouss,
>
> I first recommended dropping the word "mutual" in the adobe chat.
>
>
> I have a question specifically for you. Since I was not able to attend the
> in-person meeting and I don't know what happened, I was wondering if you
> could explain the drastic shift in your position on MAR. You were a vocal
> advocate of not having MAR in place since the start of this group  and
> several times called it an academic idea and that it was theoretical and
> not practical. We have your comments on that documented.
>
> "Should the leaders of SO/ACs take each other into account? (Kavouss
> disagreed with this idea )"
> "Mr. Arasteh also thinks  it is difficult to implement the MAR and he is
> opposed to get together of SO/AC chairs in MAR."
>
> In an email you sent to the soac group on 13/8/2016, you said"The whole
> idea [MAR] is vague and unnecessary".
>
> Did GAC change its position on MAR? Were you not representing GAC at the
> time and now you are representing GAC? I think it is necessary to explain
> the shift in your position to the group, for the sake of clarification.
>
> Farzaneh
>
> On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 3:49 AM, Kavouss Arasteh <
> kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear All, First of all ,I would like to express my disappointment and
>> frustrations resulted the way Cheryl and Steve both interrupted my
>> intervention when I was describing the problem .
>> The requires formal apology from these two respectful persons . This is
>> not the first time they interrupt me and they have exceeded the limit.
>> Secondly, I am happy that the term "RANK" was dropped in the part
>> relating to "membership ""
>> In this respect I object to the statement made by Cheryl when she said
>> "MEMBERSHIP RANK "in her English language is equivalent to "MEMBERSHIP
>> COLLECTIVELY "This was not a true statement as ono one seems to teaching
>> anyone else linguistic terms.
>> I interpreted her as saying my knowledge in English is poor and
>> insufficient as I did not know the meaning of"MEMBERSHIP RANK ".This
>> statement that she publicly made when replied to me is formally contested .
>> This kind of underestimating the ability and competence of others
>> requires formal appolgy, .
>> Thirdly, I had to leave the call due to medical check up and understand
>> that Steve proposed to delete the term "MUTUAL"in the term "Mutual
>> Accountability" As a formal Member from CCWG appointed by GAC , I strongly
>> object to such deletion.
>> Pls be careful that there must be consensus on any action being taken
>> Regards
>> Kavouss
>>
>> 2017-03-30 7:19 GMT+02:00 Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji at gmail.com>:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I agree on the process point in Avri's mail as i think it will have been
>>> good for the SO/AC accountability leads to get back to the sub-group on
>>> this. I personally have not been consistent with subgroups meetings lately
>>> hence i may not have full glimpse of what gave the leads the confidence to
>>> update subgroup documents on the fly, i guess it could be that they've
>>> checked the temperature of the subgroup on such hypothesis in the past.
>>> Nevertheless, the leads sure will be in the best position to do the needful
>>> (i note though that the subgroup was copied in Steve's mail).
>>>
>>> That said, I for one would have loved to see the "mutual" maintained but
>>> owning to realities on ground at it concerns SO/AC relationships i have my
>>> doubts. Recent events especially those related to the Atlarge review and
>>> considering how some SO/AC members/leaders reacted to it, further confirms
>>> my doubt on whether this community is matured enough to have such level of
>>> cross accountability. Besides, it's "somewhat" impractical for some groups
>>> like the ASO whose accountability is largely to/from the RIR community. The
>>> extent of checking SSAC's accountability who largely operates closed (for
>>> good reasons) is also one of the reasons why mutual may be ineffective or
>>> at best become one sided.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> On 29 Mar 2017 4:01 p.m., "avri doria" <avri at acm.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I find this way of explaining it unfortunately.
>>>>
>>>> The subgroup sent a paper with the word 'Mutual' in.  For the subgroup
>>>> leaders to now indicate that this was just the whimsy of a minority of
>>>> the plenary when that had been the recommendation of the subgroup seems
>>>> backwards.
>>>>
>>>> I believe that the plenary group chairs played fast and loose with the
>>>> process by changing the work of the subteam on the fly instead of
>>>> sending it back to the subteam.  It should have either approved the
>>>> second reading or sent it back for further work.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> avri
>>>>
>>>>  I'm late / I'm late / For a very important date. / No time to say
>>>> "Hello, Goodbye". / I'm late, I'm late, I'm late.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 29-Mar-17 10:40, Steve DelBianco wrote:
>>>> > Per the decision reached on today’s plenary call, here is the SOAC
>>>> > Accountability Report as approved for Public Comment.
>>>> >
>>>> > The 2 minor edits to the previous draft are:
>>>> >
>>>> >     remove the word “ranks” on page 7.
>>>> >     remove the word “mutual” on page 32.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > The call for Public Comment could indicate this explanation and seek
>>>> > community input:
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >     A minority of CCWG members prefer that the optional annual
>>>> >     Accountability Roundtable discussion described on page 32 be
>>>> >     expanded to include “mutual” accountability, where each SO/AC is
>>>> >     held accountable to the other SO/ACs.
>>>> >
>>>> > From: Steve DelBianco <sdelbianco at netchoice.org
>>>> > <mailto:sdelbianco at netchoice.org>>
>>>> > Date: Thursday, March 23, 2017 at 3:01 PM
>>>> > To: Accountability Cross Community
>>>> > <accountability-cross-community at icann.org
>>>> > <mailto:accountability-cross-community at icann.org>>
>>>> > Cc: Cheryl Langdon-Orr <langdonorr at gmail.com
>>>> > <mailto:langdonorr at gmail.com>>, farzaneh badii
>>>> > <farzaneh.badii at gmail.com <mailto:farzaneh.badii at gmail.com>>,
>>>> > "ws2-so_ac at icann.org <mailto:ws2-so_ac at icann.org>"
>>>> > <ws2-so_ac at icann.org <mailto:ws2-so_ac at icann.org>>, ACCT-Staff
>>>> > <acct-staff at icann.org <mailto:acct-staff at icann.org>>, Bernard
>>>> Turcotte
>>>> > <turcotte.bernard at gmail.com <mailto:turcotte.bernard at gmail.com>>
>>>> > Subject: SOAC Accountability group in CCWG WS2 - report for plenary
>>>> > 2nd reading, on 29-Mar-2017
>>>> >
>>>> > To our CCWG colleagues:
>>>> >
>>>> > Attached, for your consideration, is the report of the SOAC
>>>> > Accountability group of Work Stream 2, revised per comments at our
>>>> > first reading at the 10-Mar plenary in Copenhagen.  Including:
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >     Clarify we are looking only at activities within ICANN, so we are
>>>> >     not looking at NRO and IETF outside of ICANN.
>>>> >
>>>> >     For best practices instead of saying”should consider”, we say
>>>> >     "should implement, to the extent these practices are applicable
>>>> >     and an improvement…”
>>>> >
>>>> >     Suggest that future ATRTs may examine the extent to which best
>>>> >     practices have been implemented.
>>>> >
>>>> >     Recommend an optional mutual accountability roundtable at annual
>>>> >     general meetings, at the option of SO/AC chairs.
>>>> >
>>>> >     Add 5 examples of reasons to close a meeting to public observation
>>>> >
>>>> >     Make best practices more consistent regarding meeting notes and
>>>> >     minutes
>>>> >
>>>> >     Add the dimension of diversity to outreach best practices.
>>>> >
>>>> > We have also attached a redline from version 1.0 to version 1.1
>>>> >
>>>> > Our group looks forward to your questions and comments during 2nd
>>>> > reading on 29-Mar.
>>>> >
>>>> > Regards,
>>>> > Steve DelBianco, Cheryl Langdon-Orr, and Farzaneh Badii
>>>> > Co-Rapporteurs, SOAC Accountability Group, CCWG WS2
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list
>>>> > Accountability-Cross-Community at icann.org
>>>> > https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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