[bc-gnso] FW: [council] Confirmation of new practice at face to face open council meetings
Liz Williams
lizawilliams at mac.com
Sun Oct 25 04:01:59 UTC 2009
Mike
It's helpful to be flexible in these situations and I think that the
"system" needs to incorporate Issue Managers on a predictable and
normal basis. People who work in Working Groups and Taskforces become
natural experts and need a formalised platform to share their work.
That is a good development which does not preclude Councillors doing
their job on Council. It helps them in working group situations.
This isn't the UN or APEC TEL or the OECD -- that's where we would
worry about scalability. It is small numbers of people working a wide
range of complex issues.
Limiting the "table" to Councillors and Issues Managers is a mid way
point between having the open slather which is currently the case and
Councillors only. I'd suggest that the BC is in a position to be the
leader here and that we should talk about the best way forward for
working sessions tonight.
Best wishes.
Liz
On 25 Oct 2009, at 03:48, Mike Rodenbaugh wrote:
> Hi Liz,
>
> I appreciate the thinking here, but still believe it is not
> scalable. It is clearly appropriate for any Councilor to allow
> anyone else to speak on their or their Constituency’s behalf during
> a Council meeting for a limited time or purpose. Councilors can
> also raise comments or questions posed by others, of course. Just
> like I can forward an email from any constituent to the Council
> email list. Input from members is ALWAYS welcome, it just ought not
> be input directly to Council for many hopefully obvious reasons.
>
> All,
>
> I will not be responding further to the recent email from Mike
> Palage or Ron Andruff on this topic, as sufficient response is
> contained in my prior email to this List, today and previously.
> Namely, Michael Palage’s ‘conflict of interest’ allegation was
> earlier raised by George Kirikos, and I consider it frivolous for
> the reasons stated during that interchange, particularly that any
> purported conflict was fully disclosed long before my last
> election, and has no impact on my efforts on behalf of the BC. The
> email from Ron also overlooks the fact that I have been elected to
> represent the BC on Council. While I appreciate the desire to
> always speak one’s mind openly at Council meetings, the Council
> appears nearly unanimous that this privilege is not scalable, not
> fair, has caused detriment to the efficiency and output of the
> Council, and therefore has been discontinued.
>
> Mike Rodenbaugh
> RODENBAUGH LAW
> 548 Market Street
> San Francisco, CA 94104
> (415) 738-8087
> http://rodenbaugh.com
>
>
>
>
> From: Liz Williams [mailto:lizawilliams at mac.com]
> Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 8:03 PM
> To: icann at rodenbaugh.com
> Cc: bc-gnso at icann.org
> Subject: Re: [bc-gnso] FW: [council] Confirmation of new practice at
> face to face open council meetings
>
> Hello Mike
>
> I'm sympathetic to the issues you've raised particularly as the
> weekend sessions are really working drafting sessions.
>
> I've had some experience of this in other environments and would
> like to suggest a middle ground which may help over-worked
> Councillors.
>
> We have proposed an Issue Manager/Rapporteur system in the new
> Charter and I suggest that anyone who volunteers to do work on
> issues (whatever they are) ought to be at the table as well. This
> helps new members/volunteers become experienced at dealing with a
> wide range of issues in great detail. It is also a supportive
> position for the Councillors. It spreads the work around and also
> maximises the use of different skills in the group (for example,
> some are better on technical issues than legal drafting or
> intellectual property or competition).
>
> For example, it would probably work something like (and I'll use me
> as a hypothetical) this.
>
> 1. Councillors are at the table supported by me (the Issue Manager)
> on ABC issue.
>
> 2. Issue Manager is responsible for the scribing/writing/
> presentation of materials.
>
> 3. Councillors are there to link different issues and positions
> together and take that to Council.
>
> This strengthens our work with diverse voices and volunteers taking
> responsibility who are "rewarded" with a seat the table.
>
> Best wishes.
>
> Liz
> On 25 Oct 2009, at 01:18, Mike Rodenbaugh wrote:
>
>
> Fyi below from the Council Chair, in response to the attached email
> string
> begun by me, and subsequent discussion of Council this morning. I
> have had
> these very strong feelings for a long time now, and various less
> formal
> efforts to remedy the situation have not been effective.
>
> The Council appears nearly unanimous in support of the concept that
> Councilors should be given every opportunity to speak at Council
> meetings,
> and any public comment periods within the weekend meetings will be
> structured more as they are in the large public Council meetings
> held on
> Wednesday of the ICANN meetings. This is an effort to make Council
> more
> efficient, and to allow Councilors to do their jobs without constant
> interruptions from non-representative individuals. Of course, there
> are
> many other opportunities for such individuals to voice their
> comments and
> questions through the GNSO's bottom-up, open and transparent policy
> development practices, including the BC's internal practices.
>
> Mike Rodenbaugh
> RODENBAUGH LAW
> 548 Market Street
> San Francisco, CA 94104
> (415) 738-8087
> http://rodenbaugh.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-council at gnso.icann.org [mailto:owner-council at gnso.icann.org
> ] On
> Behalf Of Avri Doria
> Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 5:37 PM
> To: Council GNSO
> Subject: [council] Confirmation of new practice at face to face open
> council
> meetings
>
>
> Hi.
>
> After this mornings meeting I wanted to confirm several actions that
> I took
> away from the meeting:
>
> 1. the seats at the table for open council meetings will be reserved
> for
> council members, liaisons and relevant staff. Chair, vice-chair
> (s) and staff will request that others take the observers seats.
> For future
> meetings name placards will be requested to those to be seated at
> the table.
>
> 2. the observers will be requested to queue at the microphones, and
> the
> chair will be responsible for giving them the floor at appropriate
> points,
> though precedence for speaking will be given to those around the
> table.
>
> 3. any further changes to the practices at open meetings will be
> discussed
> by the new council at its discretion.
>
> Please let me know if I have misinterpreted the will of that meeting.
>
> a.
>
> From: "Gomes, Chuck" <cgomes at verisign.com>
> Date: 24 October 2009 23:50:08 BST
> To: <icann at rodenbaugh.com>, "GNSO Council" <council at gnso.icann.org>
> Subject: RE: [council] End of the Shadow Council
>
>
> Thanks Mike. Maybe we will have time to discuss this in our
> breakfast meeting.
>
> Chuck
>
> From: owner-council at gnso.icann.org [mailto:owner-council at gnso.icann.org
> ] On Behalf Of Mike Rodenbaugh
> Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 5:42 PM
> To: GNSO Council
> Subject: RE: [council] End of the Shadow Council
>
> Hi Chuck,
> This is not a policy development issue, but instead is
> administrative. I have twice been elected to represent the BC in
> Council administrative matters. Specifically per our Charter
> section 4.1, “[t]he representatives will act in the GNSO Council as
> representatives of and spokespersons for the Constituency and will
> collaborate with other members of the Council in pursuit of the
> mission of the Constituency.”
>
> I am only trying to discontinue an unwarranted privilege by which
> unrepresentative persons increasingly usurp the role of
> representative Councilors and Liaisons, and which unduly takes time
> from the entire Council and Staff.
>
> Do you have any reasoned argument against this?
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
> Mike Rodenbaugh
> RODENBAUGH LAW
> 548 Market Street
> San Francisco, CA 94104
> (415) 738-8087
> http://rodenbaugh.com
>
>
>
>
> From: Gomes, Chuck [mailto:cgomes at verisign.com]
> Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 2:15 PM
> To: icann at rodenbaugh.com; GNSO Council
> Subject: RE: [council] End of the Shadow Council
>
> Mike,
>
> Is this a CBUC request?
>
> Chuck
>
> From: owner-council at gnso.icann.org [mailto:owner-council at gnso.icann.org
> ] On Behalf Of Mike Rodenbaugh
> Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 4:42 PM
> To: GNSO Council
> Subject: [council] End of the Shadow Council
>
> Dear Colleagues,
>
> I write again regarding the so-called “Observers” at face-to-face
> GNSO Council meetings.
>
> Of course, I fully support that our face-to-face meetings are
> generally always open to true observers, both those present and
> located remotely. And I fully support that all of our meetings are
> generally fully recorded and transcribed. Indeed I think they
> should be translated, and that our conference calls be opened in
> real time to the public, with non-speaking access. I fully support
> that our email list is open and archived. All of this allows the
> public to see how the Council operates in practically real-time, and
> to experience the information and debate first-hand. Council must
> have flexibility to close its sessions and/or communicate privately,
> when it deems necessary for any stated and agreed reason. But I
> believe that has never happened to date, and of course the default
> must be open meetings and open communications.
>
> However, the growing trend is for GNSO “Observers” to participate in
> the Council’s weekend face-to-face meetings on equal footing with
> Councilors, Liasons and Staff. A small and growing group of
> privileged observers, none of whom are elected or appointed to
> represent anyone but themselves and/or their specific organizations,
> are increasingly taking an inordinate amount of Council and Staff
> time. In effect, they are a “Shadow Council” that follows the
> Council from meeting to meeting, taking advantage of a privilege
> they ought not have. This must stop, effective immediately.
>
> It is not scalable as the community of interested observers grows
> and diversifies. It is not fair in any way:
>
> n Not fair to Councilors and Liasons who offer great personal
> sacrifice to travel long distances away from their lives,
> volunteering an overly full weekend in advance of a lengthy five-day
> meeting.
>
> n Not fair to the constituents who elected or appointed the
> Councilors and Liasons, expecting that they (and only they) would
> serve as those constituents’ representatives on Council.
>
> n Not fair to the general public whose only opportunities for input
> to Council are via the Constituencies, Working Groups or public
> comment periods. Particularly not fair to the general public that
> does not speak English, or who cannot attend the sessions, as they
> have no equal ability to participate vis a vis the “Shadow Council”.
>
> n Not fair to the Staff nor the Council as a whole, whose only
> opportunity to communicate face-to-face is during these meetings.
>
> The GNSO Council is a representative body. The representative
> Councilors and designated Liaisons must be allowed to do their jobs,
> which absolutely requires face-to-face interaction with Staff and
> with each other -- without constant ‘clarifying questions’, ‘points
> of order’, comments or questions from the public. To my
> knowledge, no other SO, nor the GAC nor the Board – nor any other
> council, committee or board anywhere in the world -- ever allow such
> privilege to observers. Such points should be raised through
> Council representatives, or during any or all of the many
> opportunities for public comment into the Council processes. Indeed
> this is the reason-for-being of the Constituencies themselves, of
> Working Groups, of public comment periods in general, and of the
> public comment periods allowed at the Council’s face-to-face
> meetings (which can also be used in our weekend sessions, if time
> allows).
>
> Therefore, beginning with the newTLD session today, I request that
> observers be disallowed equal access to the Council table and
> microphones, just as they are disallowed such access at our larger
> public meetings and in our conference calls. The material presented
> by Staff in the session today will doubtless be repeated during a
> public session later in the week, which is a perfect opportunity for
> anyone to ask their questions or make their points directly to the
> Staff, without wasting tremendously valuable and scarce face-to-face
> Council/Staff time. As we have seen, too many people are abusing
> the privilege of open access to raise points that they then raise
> again and again at every opportunity throughout the ICANN meeting,
> and/or to communicate their particular, non-representative
> interests. They are abusing a privilege that they should not have
> in the first place, because it is not fair.
>
> Does anyone have an argument as to why the current privilege should
> be allowed to continue? Is anyone aware of any other council, board
> or committee, anywhere in the world, that allows such a privilege to
> observers?
>
> Otherwise, I hope the privilege will be discontinued immediately,
> and request Avri to confirm via reply to this list. If not, my next
> effort to stop this will be an Ombudsman complaint, on behalf of the
> entire community, so that this practice is investigated by a neutral
> party and discussed formally at the Council and/or Board level(s).
> I also request that the relevant OSC team discuss this and recommend
> appropriate provisions in our Council Rules of Procedure to ensure
> that nobody is given undue and disruptive access to Council,
> Liaisons and Staff during our meetings.
>
> Each and every member of the community – other than the “Shadow
> Councilors” and their specific organizations -- suffer from the
> continuation of this unwarranted and unseemly privilege that offered
> to just a few, at the expense of the many.
>
> Sincerely,
> Mike
>
> Mike Rodenbaugh
> RODENBAUGH LAW
> 548 Market Street
> San Francisco, CA 94104
> (415) 738-8087
> http://rodenbaugh.com
>
>
>
>
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