[council] FW: [soac-discussion] FW: Communication with ACSO on the next RTs

Tue Jun 8 19:25:15 UTC 2010

I agree with Kristina that it's an important issue on which there is a
good deal of experience within the GNSO.

I note that Janis' email on this issue mentioned "efficiency,
credibility of the process, [and] budgetary limitations" as reasons for
the numbers given for each upcoming RT. I'm not sure that an additional
2 GNSO reps will be detrimental to efficiency, and I should think it
would actually add to the credibility of the process - which leaves
"budgetary limitations" as the remaining (relatively unconvincing)
reason.

In addition, and although it's true that it's suggested they each get
only 1 rep on the WHOIS RT, ccNSO and ALAC each get 2 on the SS RT. I am
highly reluctant to get into a "us vs. them" or "who 'deserves' more
slots" pre-selection contest amongst the ACSOs, but it seems to me as
though this type of artificial limitation of GNSO slots - as opposed to
the suggested default of 4 per RT - will inevitably lead us there.

Chuck and others more experienced at this type of thing, will it be
such a bad strategy to ask for 4 GNSO slots (1 per SG) for each RT, but
if the Selectors feel (strongly) differently, they should give us better
reasons for, say, limiting the SS RT besides the general ones quoted by
Janis? 

That said, I'd hate to not get 4 GNSO reps at all for any RT ..... :(

Cheers
Mary

Mary W S Wong
Professor of Law & Chair, Graduate IP Programs
Franklin Pierce Law Center
Two White Street
Concord, NH 03301
USA
Email: mwong at piercelaw.edu
Phone: 1-603-513-5143
Webpage: http://www.piercelaw.edu/marywong/index.php
Selected writings available on the Social Science Research Network
(SSRN) at: http://ssrn.com/author=437584

>>> 

From: "Rosette, Kristina" <krosette at cov.com>
To:"Gomes, Chuck" <cgomes at verisign.com>, <icann at rodenbaugh.com>,
<council at gnso.icann.org>
Date: 6/8/2010 3:07 PM
Subject: RE: [council] FW: [soac-discussion] FW: Communication with
ACSO on the next RTs
Unfortunately, I don't have time for anything more elaborate or
detailed and won't until early next week. 

From: Gomes, Chuck [mailto:cgomes at verisign.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 3:00 PM
To: Rosette, Kristina; icann at rodenbaugh.com; council at gnso.icann.org
Subject: RE: [council] FW: [soac-discussion] FW: Communication with
ACSO on the next RTs

I was hoping for something a little more convincing to increase the
chances of convincing Janis.  I think we have a pretty good argument for
Whois.
Chuck

From: Rosette, Kristina [mailto:krosette at cov.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 1:04 PM
To: Gomes, Chuck; icann at rodenbaugh.com; council at gnso.icann.org
Subject: RE: [council] FW: [soac-discussion] FW: Communication with
ACSO on the next RTs

Important issue, extensive expertise within SGs, not as convinced as
you are that there aren't philosophical variances among the SGs.  On a
more practical note, we've all already got too much going on without
having to spend extra time determining which SG person goes forward.  

From: owner-council at gnso.icann.org
[mailto:owner-council at gnso.icann.org] On Behalf Of Gomes, Chuck
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 12:58 PM
To: icann at rodenbaugh.com; council at gnso.icann.org
Subject: RE: [council] FW: [soac-discussion] FW: Communication with
ACSO on the next RTs
Mike/Kristina,
Can you provide me some rationale to support 4 on the SSR RT?
Chuck

From: owner-council at gnso.icann.org
[mailto:owner-council at gnso.icann.org] On Behalf Of Mike Rodenbaugh
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 12:51 PM
To: council at gnso.icann.org
Subject: RE: [council] FW: [soac-discussion] FW: Communication with
ACSO on the next RTs

Agree w. Kristina.

Mike Rodenbaugh
RODENBAUGH LAW
tel/fax:  +1 (415) 738-8087
http://rodenbaugh.com

From: owner-council at gnso.icann.org
[mailto:owner-council at gnso.icann.org] On Behalf Of Rosette, Kristina
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 9:22 AM
To: Gomes, Chuck; KnobenW at telekom.de; MWong at piercelaw.edu
Cc: council at gnso.icann.org
Subject: RE: [council] FW: [soac-discussion] FW: Communication with
ACSO on the next RTs

Agree w/r/t/ Whois and disagree w/r/t SSR.

Don't believe we should be negotiating against ourselves by agreeing to
two. Also, it seems to me that the ramifications of the selectors
rejecting GNSO input as to participant number are potentially
significant.  In particular, the irony of doing so while the
accountability and transparency review is underway is pretty amazing.  I
think that would play pretty well (against ICANN, that is) in a number
of important fora.

From: Gomes, Chuck [mailto:cgomes at verisign.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 8:33 AM
To: KnobenW at telekom.de; Rosette, Kristina; MWong at piercelaw.edu
Cc: council at gnso.icann.org
Subject: RE: [council] FW: [soac-discussion] FW: Communication with
ACSO on the next RTs
So far, I think everyone who has commented supports Tim’s suggestion
that there should be four GNSO members on the Whois RT and most seem to
support a default of one rep per SG for all RTs.  I personally think
that we might maximize our chances of getting four on the Whois RT if we
concede to having two on the SSR RT and also think that it is fairly
easy to make a strong case for that.  
The Case for Four on the Whois RT
Whereas Internet users across the whole ICANN community are impacted by
Whois policy, I don’t think there is any doubt that GNSO constituents
are impacted the most.  It is gTLD registrants whose data is displayed
and used.  It is gTLD contracted parties who are required to implement
Whois and who best understand the customer service and operational
issues related to Whois offerings.  It is commercial gTLD registrants
whose businesses are affected when IP rights are violated.  It is
noncommercial users who have most often pointed out the need for privacy
of Whois information and noncommercial organizations that are impacted
in similar ways as commercial businesses.
In addition, because of the GNSO’s long and belabored Whois policy
development history and varied Whois operational offerings, the GNSO has
the best source of Whois experts from various points of view.  There is
also good evidence that each SG provides a unique area of expertise and
represents different points of view with regard to Whois policy.
The Case for Two on the SSR RT
I believe that the SSR RT requires a higher degree of technical
expertise than policy expertise and is less dependent on SG areas of
focus.  I also believe that the GNSO community as well as the ICANN
community is much more united in terms of SSR issues and hence
representation from different sectors may not necessarily produce
significantly different contributions, especially when compared to a
topic like Whois.  Particularly with regard to the GNSO, if each SG
endorses one candidate for the SSR team as proposed, I suspect that the
SSR RT would not be negatively impacted if the Selectors choose a RrSG
candidate over a RySG candidate or a NCSG candidate over a CSG candidate
or any other comparison because all of us will likely be putting forth
strong security experts.
The SSR RT may be an area where external experts may be especially
helpful.  By having fewer reps from SOs and ACs, space may be available
for a few more experts.
My Conclusion
I suggest that I make the case for four GNSO reps on the Whois RT and
agree to two on the SSR team.  This might set a good precedent  for
asking for four on the New gTLD RT because that, like Whois, is a big
GNSO issue and one that there are clear variances in points of view from
each SG.
Chuck

From: owner-council at gnso.icann.org
[mailto:owner-council at gnso.icann.org] On Behalf Of KnobenW at telekom.de
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 7:46 AM
To: krosette at cov.com; MWong at piercelaw.edu
Cc: council at gnso.icann.org
Subject: AW: [council] FW: [soac-discussion] FW: Communication with
ACSO on the next RTs

agreed!

Regards 
Wolf-Ulrich 

Von: owner-council at gnso.icann.org [mailto:owner-council at gnso.icann.org]
Im Auftrag von Rosette, Kristina
Gesendet: Montag, 7. Juni 2010 19:46
An: Mary Wong
Cc: GNSO Council
Betreff: RE: [council] FW: [soac-discussion] FW: Communication with
ACSO on the next RTs
+1

From: owner-council at gnso.icann.org
[mailto:owner-council at gnso.icann.org] On Behalf Of Mary Wong
Sent: Monday, June 07, 2010 1:43 PM
Cc: GNSO Council
Subject: Re: [council] FW: [soac-discussion] FW: Communication with
ACSO on the next RTs

I agree with Tim's arguments and suggestion for a response, and in
addition support Bill's suggestion that all RTs start with a default
distribution of 1 rep per SG from the GNSO (with deviations being
explained and justified according to each RT scope/topic).

Cheers

Mary

Mary W S Wong

Professor of Law & Chair, Graduate IP Programs

Franklin Pierce Law Center

Two White Street

Concord, NH 03301

USA

Email: mwong at piercelaw.edu

Phone: 1-603-513-5143

Webpage: http://www.piercelaw.edu/marywong/index.php

Selected writings available on the Social Science Research Network
(SSRN) at: http://ssrn.com/author=437584

>>> 

From: 
William Drake <william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch>

To:
"Tim Ruiz" <tim at godaddy.com>

CC:
"GNSO Council " <council at gnso.icann.org>

Date: 
6/7/2010 11:05 AM

Subject: 
Re: [council] FW: [soac-discussion] FW: Communication with ACSO on the
next RTs

Hi

It would be interesting to hear the rationale for reverting to the
original proposal of tiny unrepresentative RTs.  In any event, I
strongly agree with Tim that there really has to be four for WHOIS, the
perspectives of the SGs are just too variable for any two to represent
the others, and the whole process could become a focal point of
controversy.  Same goes for the pending RT on competition and consumer
issues.  As for security, I agree that two may be relatively less
problematic, but only relatively... it's more difficult to judge ex ante
what level of agreement there is or isn't here across some SGs on the
various issues. 

It'd be a lot easier if they'd just default to four across the board in
order to ensure community representation and diverse skill sets at the
table, rather than turning RT size into a needless source of angst.

Bill

On Jun 7, 2010, at 4:26 PM, Tim Ruiz wrote:

> 
> I'm not too concerned about having only two seats on the Security
RT,
> but strongly oppose accepting only two seats on the Whois. 
> 
> It is perfectly reasonable to allow one seat each to the SSAC, GAC,
and
> ASO. But I think it's totally implausible to assume a well
represented
> RT with only two for the GNSO and one each for the ccNSO and the
ALAC. I
> believe we make a very strong statement insisting that each of those
are
> doubled - four for the GNSO (one for each SG, no less), two each for
the
> ccNSO and the ALAC due to the size of their memberships. That would
make
> the RT 14 members, and that is certainly workable and more
realistic.
> 
> I realize the ALAC and ccNSO can defend themselves, but given the
> selectors concerns over the team size I think we should respond with
a
> total picture of what we think the RT should look like and why.
> 
> Tim
> 
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: [council] FW: [soac-discussion] FW: Communication with ACSO
on
> the next RTs
> From: "Gomes, Chuck" <cgomes at verisign.com>
> Date: Fri, June 04, 2010 1:44 pm
> To: <council at gnso.icann.org>
> 
> Please note what the AoC Selectors have proposed for the next two
RTs. 
> Please provide any comments you have on this list.  Time permitting,
we
> will also briefly discuss this in meeting on 10 June.
> 
> Chuck
> 
> From: owner-soac-discussion at icann.org
> [mailto:owner-soac-discussion at icann.org] On Behalf Of Janis Karklins
> Sent: Friday, June 04, 2010 1:50 PM
> To: soac-discussion at icann.org
> Cc: 'Rod Beckstrom'; 'Donna Austin'; 'Olof Nordling'
> Subject: [soac-discussion] FW: Communication with ACSO on the next
RTs
> 
> 
> 
> Dear colleagues
> 
> On behalf of Selectors I would like to propose that the size and
> composition of the two next review teams would be as follows:
> 
>                                                    Security          

>  WHOIS
> GAC, including the Chair           2                              1
> GNSO                                                2                

>         2
> ccNSO                                               2                

>        1
> ALAC                                                 2               

>          1
> SSAC                                                  1              

>           1
> RSSAC                                               1
> ASO                                                    1             

>             1
> Independent expert                 1-2                          2
(law
> enforcement/privacy experts)
> CEO                                                     1            

>             1
>                                                          13-14       

>               10
> 
> I understand that your initial suggestions/requests were not fully
> accommodated, but for the sake of efficiency, credibility of the
> process, budgetary limitations Selectors have developed this
proposal.
> If we would take into account all wishes, the RT size would be over
20
> which in Selectors’ view is not credible option.
> 
> I hope that proposal will be equally unacceptable for everybody. I
would
> appreciate your comments or expression of non-objection in coming
week.
> Only after assessment of the violence of your opposition the
Selectors
> will make their proposal (in present form or modified) public.
> 
> Best regards
> JK
> 
> 

***********************************************************
William J. Drake
Senior Associate
Centre for International Governance
Graduate Institute of International and
Development Studies
Geneva, Switzerland
william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch
www.graduateinstitute.ch/cig/drake.html
www.linkedin.com/in/williamjdrake
***********************************************************

Pierce Law | University of New Hampshire - An Innovative Paternership
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