[council] Draft letter to the Board on closed generics dialogue

Mon Apr 25 23:39:25 UTC 2022

Dear Philippe,

Thank you for taking on board my suggestion -- what you have included in
your version 4 at the end of para 3 works for me.

Best,
Justine

On Tue, 26 Apr 2022 at 00:45, <philippe.fouquart at orange.com> wrote:

> Thanks Paul, you might indeed, you might :) I have the same impression of
> there being nothing controversial in these changes, but they provide useful
> context, hence the suggested inclusion.
>
>
>
> I should have said shorter, in fact, rather than concise.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Philippe
>
>
>
>
>
> Orange Restricted
>
> *From:* McGrady, Jr., Paul D. <PMcGrady at taftlaw.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, April 25, 2022 6:31 PM
> *To:* FOUQUART Philippe INNOV/NET <philippe.fouquart at orange.com>; Justine
> Chew <justine.chew.icann at gmail.com>; council at gnso icann. org <
> council at gnso.icann.org>
> *Cc:* Jeff Neuman <jeff at jjnsolutions.com>; Kurt Pritz <kurt at kjpritz.com>;
> GNSO Secs <gnso-secs at icann.org>
> *Subject:* RE: [council] Draft letter to the Board on closed generics
> dialogue
>
>
>
> Thanks Phillippe.  Since Justine didn’t express what the ALAC did not like
> about my proposed enhancements, and since being concise means “brief but
> *comprehensive*”, might I *cheekily* suggest that my very modest changes
> resulted in the more concise version since I really do believe that some of
> the framing in your initial draft didn’t contain all of the necessary
> information needed for the Board to understand where we are coming from on
> this.  Nothing I included should be controversial.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* philippe.fouquart at orange.com <philippe.fouquart at orange.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, April 25, 2022 11:24 AM
> *To:* Justine Chew <justine.chew.icann at gmail.com>; McGrady, Jr., Paul D. <
> PMcGrady at taftlaw.com>; council at gnso icann. org <council at gnso.icann.org>
> *Cc:* Jeff Neuman <jeff at jjnsolutions.com>; Kurt Pritz <kurt at kjpritz.com>;
> GNSO Secs <gnso-secs at icann.org>
> *Subject:* RE: [council] Draft letter to the Board on closed generics
> dialogue
>
>
>
> [EXTERNAL MESSAGE]
>
> [responding to Justine’s email that followed Paul’s]
>
>
>
> Dear Councilors,
>
>
>
> Paul’s suggestions seem to be essentially quoting the letter and framing
> paper – however, if like Justine below, some councilors would consider that
> context to be unnecessary or restrictive, let the list know, (and if so,
> for ease of editing and given the time constraint we’d revert back to the
> previous - more concise - version)
>
>
>
> @Justine <justine.chew.icann at gmail.com> I’ve slightly reworded your other
> suggestion to make it sound less one-directional, at the risk of stating
> the obvious. Hope that’ll work.
>
>
>
> Thank you.
>
> Philippe
>
>
>
> *From:* Justine Chew <justine.chew.icann at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, April 25, 2022 10:36 AM
> *To:* McGrady, Jr., Paul D. <PMcGrady at taftlaw.com>; FOUQUART Philippe
> INNOV/NET <philippe.fouquart at orange.com>
> *Cc:* Jeff Neuman <jeff at jjnsolutions.com>; Kurt Pritz <kurt at kjpritz.com>;
> GNSO Secs <gnso-secs at icann.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [council] Draft letter to the Board on closed generics
> dialogue
>
>
>
> Hello Paul,
>
> I think the simpler version 2 of the draft reply with amendments as
> proposed by Philippe regarding references to (a) NCSG's letter and (b)
> "modalities" is sufficient for the present purposes.
>
> Hello Philippe,
>
> My 3rd point was a suggestion to indicate that Council is undertaking some
> thinking for the dialogue, so, perhaps something along the lines of the
> following could be considered? While I won't insist on it, I think it's
> useful to provide some context on the timing of this response.
>
>
>
> *It is on that basis that the Council is willing to pursue next steps for
> the facilitated dialogue, subject to mutual agreement with the GAC on the
> conditions which the Council is preparing to propose for that dialogue.*
>
>
> Thanks,
> Justine
>
>
>
> On Sat, 23 Apr 2022 at 04:11, McGrady, Jr., Paul D. <PMcGrady at taftlaw.com>
> wrote:
>
> Thanks Philippe, Kurt, Justine, and Jeff.
>
>
>
> Dear All:
>
>
>
> I’m happy with the NCSG’s letter being attached, or not, but I do think it
> is important to at least call it out since we don’t want to give the
> misimpression that the Council is completely unified on this topic. I for
> one have a *great deal of sympathy* with the idea that GAC advice should
> not restart policy work in the GNSO, but rather the Board needs to figure
> out how to implement (via IRT) both the completed policy Recommendations
> and the GAC advice in the next version of the Applicant Guidebook (like
> they did with much of the GAC advice that rolled in after the policy work
> was done for the first round).  Hopefully something will come out of this
> dialogue that helps in that process.
>
>
>
> As for the letter itself, I think we could just as easily say “Dear Board,
> of course we are happy to talk with the GAC about their concerns.  We will
> reach out to them and get it set up.”  But, we do like our letters here in
> ICANNland, so my marked up version (based off the last version sent by
> Philippe) is attached.  If we are going to frame the issues, instead of
> just a quick “we are on it” response, I think a tiny bit of more detail of
> how we got here makes sense.  Hopefully my proposed changes (which are in
> red on my screen) will be viewed as friendly amendments, which is the
> spirit in which they are offered.
>
>
>
> Thank all!
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Taft*
>
> * /*
>
> *Paul D. McGrady, Jr.*
> Partner
> PMcGrady at taftlaw.com
> Dir: 312.836.4094   |   Cell: 312.882.5020
> Tel: 312.527.4000   |   Fax: 312.754.2354
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>
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>
> *From:* council <council-bounces at gnso.icann.org> *On Behalf Of *philippe.fouquart---
> via council
> *Sent:* Friday, April 22, 2022 1:57 PM
> *To:* Jeff Neuman <jeff at jjnsolutions.com>; Justine Chew <
> justine.chew.icann at gmail.com>; Kurt Pritz <kurt at kjpritz.com>
> *Cc:* GNSO Secs <gnso-secs at icann.org>; council at gnso icann. org <
> council at gnso.icann.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [council] Draft letter to the Board on closed generics
> dialogue
>
>
>
> [EXTERNAL MESSAGE]
>
> Kurt, Justine, Jeff, thanks for the inputs.
>
>
>
> On 1) and reference to the NCSG’s letter: The reference is on record with
> the minutes, and can also be found in the Council list archive, I don’t
> think there’s any risk this goes unnoticed, I’d suggest we simply say While
> the Council is willing to pursue these next steps, it is important to note
> that Non-Commercial Stakeholders Group expressed its opposition to the
> approach.
>
>
>
> Manju (since it is you who spoke on this during our call): would you be
> fine with this?
>
>
>
> On 2) and modalities, I’d suggest we go for Jeff’s edits and simply say in
> the second paragraph:
>
> The Council is appreciative of the ICANN Board’s attention to GNSO related
> matters and is willing to pursue next steps for the facilitated dialogue,
> subject to mutual agreement with the GAC on the conditions for that
> dialogue.
>
>
>
> Ironically, in French, the equivalent of ‘modalities’ has a sense of a
> series of menial tasks that the authors would consider a) quite
> straightforward and b) as a result, generally not worth doing by
> themselves. Neither of which would probably be true here I think.
>
>
>
> It seems 2) alleviates the need to elaborate as, Justine, you suggested
> with your 3rd point but let us know if it doesn’t work.
>
>
>
> As attached with diff marks.
>
> Regards,
>
> Philippe
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Jeff Neuman <jeff at jjnsolutions.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, April 22, 2022 3:48 PM
> *To:* Justine Chew <justine.chew.icann at gmail.com>; Kurt Pritz <
> kurt at kjpritz.com>; FOUQUART Philippe INNOV/NET <
> philippe.fouquart at orange.com>
> *Cc:* GNSO Secs <gnso-secs at icann.org>; council at gnso icann. org <
> council at gnso.icann.org>
> *Subject:* RE: [council] Draft letter to the Board on closed generics
> dialogue
>
>
>
> I strongly urge that the letter from the NCSG is not included with this
> letter.  As Justine states, there are some mischaracterizations  in that
> letter and as far as I am aware the rest of the Council does not agree with
> the opinions expressed by the NCSG.  You can indicate that the NCSG opposed
> the meeting in the letter without any attachments.  If you include the NCSG
> letter, would you consider adding letters from the other SGs and Cs that
> are in support of the meeting?  I believe the best way is to note the
> NCSG’s disagreement, but not attach anything.
>
>
>
> And with respect to the word “modalities”, it is an unnecessary word.  A
> “modality” is a condition is it not?  So I would just state: “….that the
> Council is willing to pursue next steps for the facilitated dialogue,
> subject to mutual agreement with the GAC on the conditions for that
> dialogue.”
>
>
>
>
>
> Jeffrey J. Neuman
>
> Founder & CEO
>
> JJN Solutions, LLC
>
> p: +1.202.549.5079
>
> E: jeff at jjnsolutions.com
>
> http://jjnsolutions.com
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* council <council-bounces at gnso.icann.org> *On Behalf Of *Justine
> Chew via council
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 21, 2022 8:12 PM
> *To:* Kurt Pritz <kurt at kjpritz.com>; Philippe Fouquart <
> philippe.fouquart at orange.com>
> *Cc:* GNSO Secs <gnso-secs at icann.org>; council at gnso icann. org <
> council at gnso.icann.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [council] Draft letter to the Board on closed generics
> dialogue
>
>
>
> Hello Philippe, Kurt,
>
> 1. I agree with Kurt on the NCSG letter, and if it were to be included, I
> think we should at least address the assertion that "GAC has been silent
> since 2013 on the matter of Closed Generics" as called out by Jeff as a
> mis-characterization of the GAC on the part of NCSG.
>
>
> 2. I understand the word "modalities" to mean "ways of doing something",
> but if there's a better word to address Kurt's concerns then by all means,
> let's consider that.
>
> 3. Would it be feasible to add to the end of the second paragraph, a
> suggestion that "the conditions and modalities for that dialogue" will be
> forthcoming? That would indicate that Council is giving thought to those
> and will continue to do so (hence allowing for the Closed Generics small
> team leeway to do its work).
>
> Thanks for considering.
>
> Kind regards,
> Justine
>
>
>
> On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 at 06:54, Kurt Pritz via council <
> council at gnso.icann.org> wrote:
>
> Hi Philippe:
>
>
>
> Two comments:
>
>
>
> 1. If the NCSG has requested that reference to their comment should be
> included it in the letter, then we should include it. If not, you might ask
>  if they want that (and if they do, include it). I don’t think it adds
> value at this point — but will add value as we get into the meeting set-up,
> the discussion scope, and the actions taken with any recommendations that
> come out of the meeting.
>
>
>
> 2. I personally recommend that we avoid the use of the term ‘modalities.’
> I don’t know what it means and, if participating in a group tasked with
> identifying them, I wouldn’t know what they are. I right clicked on the
> word and found that Microsoft knows of no synonyms. I looked it up in a
> popular online dictionary and came up with:
>
> — the quality or state of being modal;  a modal quality or attribute;
>
> — the classification of logical propositions according to their asserting
> or denying the possibility, impossibility, contingency, or necessity of
> their content;
>
> — one of the main avenues of sensation (such as vision);
>
> — a usually physical therapeutic agency
>
>
>
> Not getting the sense from there, I looked for its use in a sentence and
> found:
>
> "Ineluctable modality of the visible: at least that if no more, thought
> through my eyes.” *The New Yorker, 7 Feb. 2022*
>
>
>
> That did not help me understand the definition but did tell me a lot about
> the kind of people that use the word. I understand the word is commonly
> used in governmental settings but we needn’t adopt the custom if it is not
> clarifying or helpful.
>
>
>
> Slightly more seriously, when we meet among ourselves and with the GAC, we
> should all understand the target and “modalities” seems too broad. It would
> be helpful for me (maybe it is just me) to replace the word with commonly
> spoken terms or to parenthetically define it.
>
>
>
> Thanks for listening,
>
>
>
> Kurt
>
>
>
> On Apr 22, 2022, at 3:32 AM, philippe.fouquart--- via council <
> council at gnso.icann.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> Dear Councilors,
>
>
>
> Please find attached for you review a draft response letter to the ICANN
> Board on closed generics. It intends to capture the conclusions of our
> discussion during the Council call last week.
>
>
>
> We would like to have it ready for the Board workshop next week, so please
> have a look before April 27th 1200 UTC (Wednesday)
>
>
>
> Thanks.
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Philippe
>
>
>
>
>
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