[CPWG] [GTLD-WG] [registration-issues-wg] ALAC Statement regarding EPDP

Thu Aug 2 15:25:56 UTC 2018

Jonathan,
It does make sense.
However there are different positions that do not seem to me to have moved much over the decades and that it will be not be easy to converge.
GDPR has only changed some of the status quo, tilting the table more towards the privacy concern, but the differences remain.
Anyway, we have no other choice than keep trying.
Cheers,
Roberto

> On 02.08.2018, at 16:59, Jonathan Zuck <JZuck at innovatorsnetwork.org> wrote:
> 
> Again, both "skipping due process" and "ease of access" are gross over simplifications. We're simply talking about a representation of interests, not some ultimate truth that you seem to have settled upon. Instead, we're talking about making sure that cybersecurity researchers can continue to do their work. We're talking about trying to make sure that reputational databases can continue to be maintained. We aren't going in with a preconceived notion about how that should happen, simply a commitment to working within the community to ensure those kinds of data uses are able to continue. That make more sense?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano at hotmail.com> 
> Sent: Thursday, August 2, 2018 10:46 AM
> To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele at blacknight.com>
> Cc: Jonathan Zuck <JZuck at innovatorsnetwork.org>; Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca>; CPWG <cpwg at icann.org>
> Subject: Re: [GTLD-WG] [CPWG] [registration-issues-wg] ALAC Statement regarding EPDP
> 
> I have to agree with Michele here - if there is a due process, it must be for a good reason.
> To allow skipping due process for ease of access is, to me, like jumping a queue because it’s faster.
> But this is a discussion that we are having since before ICANN, and positions have not moved much.
> R
> 
> 
>> On 02.08.2018, at 16:37, Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele at blacknight.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Jonathan / Alan
>> 
>> Thanks for the clarifications.
>> 
>> 3 - I don't know how you can know what the interests of a user are. The assumption you seem to be making is that due process and privacy should take a backseat to access to data
>> 4 - Same as 3. Plenty of ccTLDs never offered PII in their public whois and there weren't any issues with security or stability.
>> 
>> Skipping due process for "ease of access" is a very slippery and dangerous slope.
>> 
>> Regards
>> 
>> Michele
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Mr Michele Neylon
>> Blacknight Solutions
>> Hosting, Colocation & Domains
>> https://www.blacknight.com/
>> https://blacknight.blog/
>> Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072
>> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
>> Personal blog: https://michele.blog/
>> Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/ 
>> -------------------------------
>> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
>> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland  Company No.: 370845
>> 
>> On 02/08/2018, 15:03, "Jonathan Zuck" <JZuck at innovatorsnetwork.org> wrote:
>> 
>>   Thanks Michele!
>>   3. Where there appears to be a conflict of interest between a registrant and non-registrant end user, we'll be endeavoring to represent the interests of the non-registrant end user.
>>   4. Related to 3. This is simply an affirmation of the interests of end users in a stable and secure internet and it is those interests we'll be representing. We've included law enforcement because efficiencies regarding their access may come up. Just because there's always a way for them to get to data doesn't mean it's the best way.
>> 
>>   Make sense?
>>   Jonathan
>> 
>> 
>>   -----Original Message-----
>>   From: GTLD-WG <gtld-wg-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org> On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight
>>   Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2018 12:34 PM
>>   To: Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca>; CPWG <cpwg at icann.org>
>>   Subject: Re: [GTLD-WG] [CPWG] [registration-issues-wg] ALAC Statement regarding EPDP
>> 
>>   Alan
>> 
>>   1 - good
>>   2 - good
>>   3 - I don't understand what that means
>>   4 - Why are you combining law enforcement and private parties? Law enforcement can always get access to data when they follow due process. 
>> 
>>   Regards
>> 
>>   Michele
>> 
>> 
>>   --
>>   Mr Michele Neylon
>>   Blacknight Solutions
>>   Hosting, Colocation & Domains
>>   https://www.blacknight.com/
>>   https://blacknight.blog/
>>   Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072
>>   Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
>>   Personal blog: https://michele.blog/
>>   Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/ 
>>   -------------------------------
>>   Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
>>   Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland  Company No.: 370845
>> 
>>   On 01/08/2018, 17:27, "registration-issues-wg on behalf of Alan Greenberg" <registration-issues-wg-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org on behalf of alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca> wrote:
>> 
>>       Yesterday, the EPDP Members were asked to present a 1-3 minute 
>>       summary of their groups position in regard to the EPDP. The following 
>>       is the statement agreed to by me, Hadia, Holly and Seun.
>> 
>>       1.   The ALAC believes that the EPDP MUST succeed and will be working 
>>       toward that end.
>> 
>>       2.   We have a support structure that we are organizing to ensure 
>>       that what we present here is understood by our community and has 
>>       their input and support.
>> 
>>       3.   The ALAC believes that individual registrants are users and we 
>>       have regularly worked on their behalf (as in the PDP that we 
>>       initiated to protect registrant rights when their domains expire), if 
>>       registrant needs differ from those of the 4 billion Internet users 
>>       who are not registrants, those latter needs take precedence. We 
>>       believe that GDPR and this EPDP are such a situation.
>> 
>>       4.   Although some Internet users consult WHOIS and will not be able 
>>       to do so in some cases going forward, our main concern is access for 
>>       those third parties who work to ensure that the Internet is a safe 
>>       and secure place for users and that means that law enforcement, 
>>       cybersecurity researchers, those combatting fraud in domain names, 
>>       and others who help protect users from phishing, malware, spam, 
>>       fraud, DDoS attacks and such can work with minimal reduction in 
>>       access to WHOIS data. All within the constraints of GDPR of course.
>> 
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