[CPWG] [GTLD-WG] Fwd: Re: [registration-issues-wg] Fwd: ISOC sells PIR

Wed Nov 20 18:43:16 UTC 2019

Very interesting indeed.  Exactly what At-Large is for !

However, sorry that have to apologize for this meting, having a bad cold.
:(

Kaili

On Thu, Nov 21, 2019 at 1:13 AM Maureen Hilyard <maureen.hilyard at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Sounds like an interesting CPWG meeting coming up :)
>
> M
>
> On Wed, Nov 20, 2019 at 5:39 AM Bartlett Morgan <me at bartlettmorgan.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Imagine ICANN getting the pants sued off of it if it does...
>>
>> -
>> Bart
>> Sent from my mobile
>>
>> On 20 Nov 2019, at 11:28, Evan Leibovitch <evan at telly.org> wrote:
>>
>> That's what I mean, re-delegating it from PIR to a real nonprofit.
>>
>> I will check, and maybe others can help.... but I believe that there is a
>> clause in the registry agreement that allows ICANN to terminate if there is
>> a major change in the status of the owner (in this case, PIR changing from
>> nonprofit to for-profit).
>>
>> Of course ICANN has rarely if ever acted on this capability, but I
>> believe it exists.
>>
>> ___________________
>> Evan Leibovitch, Toronto
>> @evanleibovitch/@el56
>>
>> On Wed., Nov. 20, 2019, 9:26 a.m. Eduardo Diaz, <
>> eduardodiazrivera at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Evan:
>>>
>>> How .ORG can be re-delegated if it does not belong to ISOC but PIR?
>>>
>>> -ed
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 20, 2019 at 8:34 AM Evan Leibovitch <evan at telly.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Or there could be totally new advice asking ICANN to re-delegate .ORG
>>>> back to a nonprofit.
>>>> It has that authority.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://gizmodo.com/private-equity-ghouls-buy-non-profit-that-handles-org-1839860118
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, 19 Nov 2019 at 17:25, John Laprise <jlaprise at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On the advice we issued on the change in contractual terms. It's
>>>>> within ALAC's remit to issue advice on anything and this is exactly the
>>>>> kind of situation that allows us to nimbly address a situation. George
>>>>> Kirikos mentioned the s contingency in the list but by that time I'm pretty
>>>>> sure he had established himself as shrill and was in the process of being
>>>>> report to the ombudsman. We can ask the board to examine options here
>>>>> because we issued advice in good faith and expectation of ISOC being a good
>>>>> Steward of .org. selling it off to a VC firm was not something I considered
>>>>> likely and had I, would not have advocated in the way I did.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my Pixel 3XL
>>>>>
>>>>> John Laprise, Ph.D.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 1:22 PM Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On what issue John?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Alan
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Sent from my mobile. Please excuse brevity and typos.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On November 19, 2019 1:31:18 PM EST, John Laprise <jlaprise at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I agree with Evan. This is an astounding sort sighted deal by ISOC
>>>>>>> which essentially squandered the trust of it's membership for financial
>>>>>>> gain. Trust is the most precious commodity of any non profit and hard to
>>>>>>> regain once lost.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Furthermore, ALAC and CPWG should urgently amend our advice on the
>>>>>>> contractual issue to reflect new situation. I am no longer in support on
>>>>>>> this issue.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from my Pixel 3XL
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> John Laprise, Ph.D.
>>>>>>> Show quoted text
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from my Pixel 3XL
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> John Laprise, Ph.D.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 3:58 AM Evan Leibovitch <evan at telly.org>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 18 Nov 2019 at 09:16, Hadia Abdelsalam Mokhtar EL miniawi <
>>>>>>>> Hadia at tra.gov.eg> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I would certainly assume that ISOC got a very decent amount of
>>>>>>>>> money from Ethos for the deal to go forward. At this point I would assume
>>>>>>>>> that ISOC has insured its way forward. However, what is still to be seen is
>>>>>>>>> the effect on the .org prices, hopefully going forward they would have
>>>>>>>>> special prices for non profits.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Two factors come to mind in considering the long term effects of
>>>>>>>> the sale, over and above the financial-stability component of which we are
>>>>>>>> all aware. Consider:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *The substance:*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> PIR was more than just an ISOC asset. The Internet Society was
>>>>>>>> custodian of the only global top-level domain that was, by nature
>>>>>>>> and its very name, acting in the public interest. In a sea of TLD
>>>>>>>> sharks, dot-org could be seen as a body that brought both
>>>>>>>> financial stability to ISOC and social responsibility among the registries.
>>>>>>>> Its size and nonprofit status would keep costs down and corporate
>>>>>>>> direction serving a social mission. Its competitive presence could
>>>>>>>> tamp down the excesses of the industry.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And now that's gone. More important than the divestment of PIR is
>>>>>>>> its change from nonprofit to Just Another Shareholder-Value-Maximizing part
>>>>>>>> of the domain ecosystem, its uniqueness vanished in an instant. In
>>>>>>>> the aim of maximizing its own revenue ISOC has eliminated from the the
>>>>>>>> Internet the only publicly-accessible nonprofit gTLD. Gone is this substantial
>>>>>>>> voice of public-interest sanity within the registry community,
>>>>>>>> replaced by an entity barely more ethically motivated than Donuts. As a
>>>>>>>> dot-org "owner", this hurts personally. But as someone trying to
>>>>>>>> advance Internet domains as a component of progress, this hurts on a global
>>>>>>>> scale.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Stewardship of a socially-motivated registry was one of ISOC's core
>>>>>>>> global functions IMO. With that gone, so is part of ISOC's value.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *The process:*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The path that led to the divestment of PIR, both before and after
>>>>>>>> the decision had been made, has laid bare a core ISOC culture that
>>>>>>>> is the opposite of the openness it asks the world to embrace. At a
>>>>>>>> level of fiscal responsibility, ISOC's action was exactly what one would
>>>>>>>> expect any for-profit entity to do. Maximize benefit through a secretive
>>>>>>>> process that catches everyone unaware -- not just of the transaction but of
>>>>>>>> the urgency to do it,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Except ISOC is not a for-profit entity. It displays itself to the
>>>>>>>> world as a community body that encourages involvement at a personal,
>>>>>>>> regional, institutional or national scale. It has carefully crafted and
>>>>>>>> evolved a Chapters Advisory Council explicitly designed to provide
>>>>>>>> management with the view from the grassroots, alongside a parallel Council
>>>>>>>> for corporate participants. This was combined with global virtual
>>>>>>>> events such as InterCommunity that were created to give ISOC a global
>>>>>>>> awareness of what was needed to promote a more-open Internet. And it has
>>>>>>>> always had an individual-membership program, which isn't really talked
>>>>>>>> about these days as these "members" have neither any costs nor any benefits.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> None of these mechanisms were employed, none of these entities
>>>>>>>> consulted, before or after the decision, even under NDA. The community
>>>>>>>> wasn't even aware that PIR was being shopped around. As a result, there was
>>>>>>>> no open solicitation, no publicly-competitive process, no opportunity for
>>>>>>>> any other firm to make a counter-offer that might keep PIR nonprofit. We'll
>>>>>>>> never know. Or maybe it wasn't shopped around and someone just made ISOC an
>>>>>>>> offer it couldn't refuse. But ISOC isn't Jack Woltz. The community
>>>>>>>> had no idea of any sense of urgency to sell PIR, and certainly was never
>>>>>>>> consulted about the ethics or consequences of turning PIR for-profit.
>>>>>>>> The common nonprofit practice of having major decisions ratified by
>>>>>>>> stakeholders at an AGM is also nowhere in sight.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So now we know the reality of ISOC's corporate culture. Promote
>>>>>>>> openness and consultation when convenient, but be opaque when it matters.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't know if ISOC considers me a stakeholder, or for that matter
>>>>>>>> anyone else on this list, any Chapter or any Organization Member. In fact
>>>>>>>> right now I have no idea who ISOC considers its stakeholders to be; it
>>>>>>>> certainly didn't consult any before the fact or ask for any blessings
>>>>>>>> afterwards. Not even informally. So who shows up at the AGM? Just the
>>>>>>>> Trustees?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In any case, the deal is essentially done. ISOC clearly appears to
>>>>>>>> have assured its financial stability, which is certainly a Good Thing. But
>>>>>>>> with a crown jewel of the Internet fading away and the shallowness of its
>>>>>>>> commitment to openness and community exposed in the process, it is
>>>>>>>> legitimate to ask whether ISOC has sold more than a registry.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We won't know the answer to that for a while
>>>>>>>> - Evan
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>> CPWG at icann.org
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Evan Leibovitch, Toronto Canada
>>>> @evanleibovitch or @el56
>>>> _______________________________________________
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