[CPWG] [GTLD-WG] [registration-issues-wg] reference list re: amazon PICs

Wed Oct 2 04:43:39 UTC 2019

I think Holly sums up my views as well.

There is almost certainly a way forward toward enforceable PICs. This party
beneficiaries can be given the right within a contract to enforce relevant
portions. I don’t think the contracted parties will ever agree to that (and
in the world as it is, that’s that). Failing that, the answer to third
party enforceable PICs probably lies in taking them out of the Registry
Agreements.

PICs may not have a high degree of value now, but they are a toehold we
shouldn’t lose. They can be built up into or at least traded for some
levers of accountability for registries.

Greg

On Wed, Oct 2, 2019 at 12:27 AM Holly Raiche <h.raiche at internode.on.net>
wrote:

> I largely agree with Alan on both counts.
>
> Amazon is just too hard.  I think we have to accept that there are quite
> legitimate and strongly held views on both sides, so we cannot, in all
> conscience, say that ALAC favors one view over the other.
>
> PICS are different.  ALAC strongly supported mandatory PICS and argued for
> their inclusion into the Registry contract with ICANN so that there would
> be some mechanism for at least ICANN to monitor (if not enforce)
> contractual undertakings. (yes it is correct to say that others cannot
> enforce PICS - the legal explanation is the 3rd party beneficiary rule -
> only parties to a contract can enforce its terms against the other
> contracting party - third party beneficiaries cannot). Voluntary PICS are
> another issue (put bucket and spit into whatever order you choose).  Yes,
> some were important. But if they are to be retained, we need think through
> how to make them more effective.
>
> Holly
>
> On Oct 2, 2019, at 1:08 PM, Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca>
> wrote:
>
> This message is in reply not only to Marita's message quoted here, but to
> some of the other replies in this thread as well.
>
> The ALAC has largely stayed out of the .amazon issue, and for good reasons:
>
> - We are divided - some of our members from the Amazon basin area feel
> strongly that the company should not have has been granted the domain,
> others feel strongly that they should
> - When we did a poll of ALAC members a while ago, the larges sentiment was
> that there not be one side that wins all and the other gets nothing
>
> The PICs are an attempt to ensure that there is not a 100% loser. How well
> they meet the countries demands and how well they will work is not clear,
> but I see no reason for the ALAC to get involved in it now. I cannot see us
> contributing so wisdom from on high which will make everyone agree. Put
> another way, we will certainly not be a major influence in the outcome, so
> perhaps (to quote Douglas Adams) it is mostly harmless, but I see no real
> benefit that justifies the work that would nee to go into it.
>
> The conversation went on to PICs in general. I am a strong supporter. The
> madatory PICs were largely as a result of GAC Advice on sensitive TLDs and
> they will not go away. That is good, as we strongly supported them.
>
> Many voluntary PICs were (to quote Carlton) not worth a warm bucket of
> spit (or alternatively, a bucket of warm spit - it is unclear which phrase
> was used first, but thereafter they were often interchangeable). But that
> really does not matter. There WERE some PICs that were strong and
> important. Moreover, it is a mechanism that CAN be used for a registry that
> does want to make a difference. So I think we need to do all we can to
> ensure that they stay for the next round(s).
>
> Several people are right that once there, enforcement is important (not
> for the "spit" ones, but for the relatively few that do have meaning). But
> that is a more general issue and not purely related to new TLDs.
>
> Alan
>
>
> At 26/09/2019 11:48 AM, Marita Moll wrote:
>
> Hello CPWG members. As requested please see below the primary and
> secondary sources that were used in researching the Amazon PICs issue
>
> Primary sources:
>
> *Approved Board resolutions; special meeting of the Board  May 15, 2019
>
>
> https://www.icann.org/resources/board-material/resolutions-2019-05-15-en#1.c
>
> *Text of .amazon PICS -- E-mail to ICANN Board
>
>
> https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/correspondence/huseman-to-chalaby-17apr19-en.pdf
>
> *Marby to Zaluar correspondence -- June 13, 2019
>
>
> https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/correspondence/marby-to-zaluar-13jun19-en.pdf
>
> *ICANN Application comment form
>
> https://gtldcomment.icann.org/applicationcomment/login
>
> Secondary sources:
>
> *Domain Mondo's weekly Internet domain news review June 2, 2019
>
> www.domainmondo.com/2019/06/news-review-icann-gnso-epdp-phase-2.html
>
>
> *Hold your horses; the last wave of comments on .amazon hasn't started yet
>
> Kevin Murphy May 24, 2019
>
>
> domainincite.com/24300-hold-your-horses-the-last-wave-of-comments-on-amazon-hasnt-started-yet
>
> *Amazon wins; ICANN on verge of approving .amazon despite government
> outrage
>
> Kevin Murphy, May 19, 2019
>
>
> domainincite.com/24260-amazon-wins-icann-on-verge-of-approving-amazon-despite-government-outrage
> <https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/brcrb7/icann_on_verge_of_approving_amazon_for_amazon_inc/>
>
>
> *.amazon domains are getting closer
>
> Konstantinos Zournas May 29, 2019
>
>
> https://onlinedomain.com/2019/05/20/domain-name-news/amazon-domain-names-are-getting-closer/
>
> *Jeff Bezos finally gets .Amazon after DNS overlord runs out of excuses to
> delay decision any further
>
> Kieran McCarthy May 21, 2019
>
> https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/05/21/bezos_finally_gets_amazon/
>
>
> *ICANN says Amazon In's application for .amazon TLD can proceed following
> 30 days of public comment
>
> May 20, 2019
>
>
> www.circleid.com/posts/20190520_icann_says_amazon_inc_application_for_dot_amazon_can_proceed/
>
> _______________________________________________
> CPWG mailing list
> CPWG at icann.org
> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg
>
> _______________________________________________
> By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your
> personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance
> with the ICANN Privacy Policy ( https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and
> the website Terms of Service ( https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You
> can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or
> configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or
> disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
> _______________________________________________
> GTLD-WG mailing list
> GTLD-WG at atlarge-lists.icann.org
> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gtld-wg
>
> Working Group direct URL:
> https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/New+GTLDs
> _______________________________________________
> By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your
> personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance
> with the ICANN Privacy Policy ( https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and
> the website Terms of Service ( https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You
> can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or
> configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or
> disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
>
> _______________________________________________
> CPWG mailing list
> CPWG at icann.org
> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg
>
> _______________________________________________
> By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your
> personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance
> with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and
> the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can
> visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or
> configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or
> disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so
> on._______________________________________________
>
> registration-issues-wg mailing list
> registration-issues-wg at atlarge-lists.icann.org
> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/registration-issues-wg
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your
> personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance
> with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and
> the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can
> visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or
> configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or
> disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> CPWG mailing list
> CPWG at icann.org
> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg
>
> _______________________________________________
> By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your
> personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance
> with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and
> the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can
> visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or
> configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or
> disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so
> on._______________________________________________
> GTLD-WG mailing list
> GTLD-WG at atlarge-lists.icann.org
> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gtld-wg
>
> Working Group direct URL:
> https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/New+GTLDs
> _______________________________________________
> By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your
> personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance
> with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and
> the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can
> visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or
> configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or
> disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.

-- 
Greg Shatan
greg at isoc-ny.org
President, ISOC-NY
*"The Internet is for everyone"*
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/cpwg/attachments/20191002/619a208b/attachment-0001.html>