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<p class="MsoNormal">Jonathan,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Perhaps you may want to stick to making your short films. You are much more in your comedic swim lane with that content <span style="font-family:"Segoe UI Emoji",sans-serif">😊</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Are there any recent videos that you can share? They always seem to bring a smile to my face, although your short western is still my all-time favorite.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Michael<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Jonathan Zuck <JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org> <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 20, 2023 4:42 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Zak Muscovitch <zak@muscovitch.com>; mike palage.com <mike@palage.com>; Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com>; Evan Leibovitch <evan@telly.org>; CPWG <cpwg@icann.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [CPWG] Something of actual importance to end-users<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Oh, sorry about that. I thought George was one of yours. I suppose no one really wants to take responsibility for him. Honestly, I was really just trying to tease Evan. J
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Jonathan Zuck</b> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><i>Director</i>, Future of Work Project<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Innovators Network Foundation<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.InnovatorsNetwork.org">www.InnovatorsNetwork.org</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:black">From:</span></b><span style="color:black"> Zak Muscovitch <<a href="mailto:zak@muscovitch.com">zak@muscovitch.com</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 20, 2023 4:36:47 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jonathan Zuck <<a href="mailto:JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org">JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org</a>>; mike palage.com <<a href="mailto:mike@palage.com">mike@palage.com</a>>; Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <<a href="mailto:ocl@gih.com">ocl@gih.com</a>>; Evan Leibovitch
<<a href="mailto:evan@telly.org">evan@telly.org</a>>; CPWG <<a href="mailto:cpwg@icann.org">cpwg@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [CPWG] Something of actual importance to end-users</span> <o:p>
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<p class="xmsonormal">Your apology is accepted. Please note however, that it was not a member of the ICA who made any “outcry” and therefore your statement that you “look forward to ICA's civil and rational evaluation of this outcry
<i>by one of its members</i>”, is factually incorrect. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal">Yours truly,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal">Zak Muscovitch<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal">General Counsel, ICA<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">Muscovitch Law P.C.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"><a href="mailto:zak@muscovitch.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:#1155CC">zak@muscovitch.com</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">1-866-654-7129</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222">416-924-5084</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"><a href="http://www.trademarks-canada.com/" target="_blank"><span style="color:#1155CC">http://www.trademarks-canada.com/</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"><a href="https://www.muscovitch.com/" target="_blank"><span style="color:#1155CC">https://www.muscovitch.com/</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xmsonormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"><a href="https://dnattorney.com/" target="_blank"><span style="color:#1155CC">https://dnattorney.com/</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"><b>From:</b> Jonathan Zuck <<a href="mailto:JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org">JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 20, 2023 4:28 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Zak Muscovitch <<a href="mailto:zak@muscovitch.com">zak@muscovitch.com</a>>; mike palage.com <<a href="mailto:mike@palage.com">mike@palage.com</a>>; Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <<a href="mailto:ocl@gih.com">ocl@gih.com</a>>; Evan Leibovitch <<a href="mailto:evan@telly.org">evan@telly.org</a>>;
CPWG <<a href="mailto:cpwg@icann.org">cpwg@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [CPWG] Something of actual importance to end-users<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal">Oh Hi Zak. Been a minute. Sorry, I was really just trying to make a joke and engaged in some hyperbole...perhaps a bit like the domain industry does when their interests are at stake...but that's neither here nor there. No real offense
intended. I look forward to ICA's civil and rational evaluation of this outcry by one of its members.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal">Jonathan <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"><b>Jonathan Zuck</b> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"><i>Director</i>, Future of Work Project<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal">Innovators Network Foundation<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"><a href="http://www.InnovatorsNetwork.org">www.InnovatorsNetwork.org</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"><b><span style="color:black">From:</span></b><span style="color:black"> Zak Muscovitch <<a href="mailto:zak@muscovitch.com">zak@muscovitch.com</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 20, 2023 4:19:33 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jonathan Zuck <<a href="mailto:JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org">JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org</a>>; mike palage.com <<a href="mailto:mike@palage.com">mike@palage.com</a>>; Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <<a href="mailto:ocl@gih.com">ocl@gih.com</a>>; Evan Leibovitch
<<a href="mailto:evan@telly.org">evan@telly.org</a>>; CPWG <<a href="mailto:cpwg@icann.org">cpwg@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [CPWG] Something of actual importance to end-users</span> <o:p>
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<p class="xmsonormal">Jonathan, I don’t appreciate your sentiment of “hating domainers”. It’s not conducive to civil discussion amongst stakeholders, and in any event it is an overly broad generalization without justification. Moreover, attributing Evan's concern
to being "spun up by domainers" is another unjustified generalization. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal">Zak Muscovitch<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal">General Counsel, ICA<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"><b>From:</b> CPWG <<a href="mailto:cpwg-bounces@icann.org">cpwg-bounces@icann.org</a>> on behalf of Jonathan Zuck via CPWG <<a href="mailto:cpwg@icann.org">cpwg@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 20, 2023 4:12 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> mike palage.com <<a href="mailto:mike@palage.com">mike@palage.com</a>>; Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <<a href="mailto:ocl@gih.com">ocl@gih.com</a>>; Evan Leibovitch <<a href="mailto:evan@telly.org">evan@telly.org</a>>; CPWG <<a href="mailto:cpwg@icann.org">cpwg@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [CPWG] Something of actual importance to end-users <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal">Yeah, this is much ado about nothing. It's not like some contract can give a government permission to seize a domain. Sigh. This is just so ICANN can't come after Verisign ( and PIR etc) for accommodating a court order.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal">For someone who hates the domainers, even more than me, Evan is sure spun up by them!<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"><b>Jonathan Zuck</b> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"><i>Director</i>, Future of Work Project<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal">Innovators Network Foundation<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"><a href="http://www.InnovatorsNetwork.org">www.InnovatorsNetwork.org</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xmsonormal"><b><span style="color:black">From:</span></b><span style="color:black"> CPWG <<a href="mailto:cpwg-bounces@icann.org">cpwg-bounces@icann.org</a>> on behalf of mike palage.com via CPWG <<a href="mailto:cpwg@icann.org">cpwg@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 20, 2023 3:56:38 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <<a href="mailto:ocl@gih.com">ocl@gih.com</a>>; Evan Leibovitch <<a href="mailto:evan@telly.org">evan@telly.org</a>>; CPWG <<a href="mailto:cpwg@icann.org">cpwg@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [CPWG] Something of actual importance to end-users</span> <o:p>
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<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin:0in">Hello Olivier,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin:0in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin:0in">Can you provide a public reference to the thread or email list? I am a sucker for subscribing to a good mailing list.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin:0in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin:0in">That being said I would agree with John’s statement. As someone who has consulted with many registry operators over the last two decades, the language in the .COM and the now proposed .NET registry agreement is not
inconsistent with standards provisions across the industry.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin:0in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin:0in">Sadly, ICANN only requires Verisign to post its Registry/Registrar agreements. However, I was able to quickly find this legal provision from EURid in connection with .EU registrations, see
<a href="https://eurid.eu/d/7556497/Terms_and_Conditions_EN.pdf">https://eurid.eu/d/7556497/Terms_and_Conditions_EN.pdf</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin:0in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin:0in">Section 6.4 - <span style="color:black;background:yellow">
The Registry shall be entitled to immediately suspend or cancel the Domain</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin:0in"><span style="color:black;background:yellow">Name when the Registrant is in breach of the Rules.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin:0in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin:0in">Section 3. OBLIGATIONS OF THE REGISTRANT<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin:0in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin:0in">Throughout the Term, the Registrant has the following obligations:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin:0in">1. As referred to in the Registration Policy, to keep its contact information accurate, complete, and up-to-date, both (i) with the Registrar with whom the Registrant has entered into an Agreement and (ii) with the
Registry (via the Registrar). Moreover, the Registrant represents and warrants that any email address communicated to the Registry shall be a functioning e-mail<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin:0in">address;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin:0in">2. To use the Domain Name in such a way that does not violate any third-party rights, applicable laws, or regulations, including discrimination on the basis of race, language, sex, religion, or political view;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin:0in">3. Not to use the Domain Name (i) in bad faith or (ii) for
<span style="color:black;background:yellow">any unlawful purpose</span>.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin:0in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin:0in">Section 4. REPRESENTATIONS AND WARRANTIES OF THE REGISTRANT<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin:0in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin:0in">The Registrant represents and warrants that:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin:0in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin:0in">1. it meets the Eligibility Criteria, and it shall inform the Registry when it ceases to meet such conditions via its Registrar;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin:0in">2. all information provided to the Registry during the Domain Name registration process is true, complete, and accurate;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin:0in">3. the Domain Name registration is made in good faith,
<span style="color:black;background:yellow">for a lawful purpose</span>, and does not infringe the rights of any third party;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin:0in">4. the Domain Name is not contrary to public policy or morality (e.g. is not obscene or offensive), and is not unlawful;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin:0in">5. throughout the Term, it shall abide by these Terms and Conditions and any and all applicable Rules.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin:0in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin:0in">Therefore while the Verisign lawyers were a bit verbose our friends at EURid were much more succinct.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin:0in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin:0in">Net Net – I personally am not losing any sleep over the proposed mark-up to the RRA. That being said there are A LOT of other provisions in the existing/proposed .NET agreement that are giving me angst, so please tune
in next Wednesday when Bill and I share our initial assessment and concerns. <o:p>
</o:p></p>
<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin:0in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin:0in">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin:0in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin:0in">Michael<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin:0in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin:0in"><b>From:</b> CPWG <<a href="mailto:cpwg-bounces@icann.org">cpwg-bounces@icann.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond via CPWG<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 20, 2023 3:28 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Evan Leibovitch <<a href="mailto:evan@telly.org">evan@telly.org</a>>; CPWG <<a href="mailto:cpwg@icann.org">cpwg@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [CPWG] Something of actual importance to end-users<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin:0in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Forgot the reference:<br>
<a href="https://itp.cdn.icann.org/en/files/registry-agreements/com/com-amend-3-pdf-27mar20-en.pdf">https://itp.cdn.icann.org/en/files/registry-agreements/com/com-amend-3-pdf-27mar20-en.pdf</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin:0in">On 20/04/2023 20:26, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Worth noting: John Levine points out on another mailing list that the changes are the same as those already integrated in the .COM Registry Agreement 3 years ago and that did not cause as many ripples back
then.<br>
<br>
He also mentions that governments seize gTLD domains all the time when they get a suitable
<br>
court order. But of course I guess this is all in the details.<br>
<br>
Kindest regards,<br>
<br>
Olivier<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin:0in">On 20/04/2023 17:12, Evan Leibovitch via CPWG wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin:0in"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#0B5394"><a href="https://freespeech.com/2023/04/19/red-alert-icann-and-verisign-proposal-would-allow-any-government-in-the-world-to-seize-domain-names/">https://freespeech.com/2023/04/19/red-alert-icann-and-verisign-proposal-would-allow-any-government-in-the-world-to-seize-domain-names/</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin:0in"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#0B5394"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin:0in"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#0B5394">Let's briefly put aside the boasting about ALAC's incremental involvement in the trivial agendas set by ICANN's vested interests. Here's a real example of
an issue that can negatively affect end-users. The aims of the proposed modification may be laudable, but there's too much room for arbitrariness and too much potential to curb political speech unwanted by a government.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin:0in"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#0B5394"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin:0in"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#0B5394">BTW ... Why was this not already flagged by ALAC as cause for concern? Why did I have to find out about this in the media rather than from the inside. Was
ALAC intending to ignore it?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin:0in"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#0B5394"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin:0in"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#0B5394">This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. ALAC is obsessed with the trivial and the self-absorbed, but asleep during the issues that actually affect the constituency
we're supposed to serve.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin:0in"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#0B5394"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin:0in"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#0B5394">Does ALAC have what it takes to fight for the public interest on something that actually matters?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin:0in"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#0B5394">Is it capable of balancing the various intertwining issues? If the CPWG meets on this issue I'll be there.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin:0in"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#0B5394"><br clear="all">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin:0in">Evan Leibovitch, <span style="font-size:9.5pt">Toronto Canada</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin:0in"><span style="font-size:9.5pt">@evanleibovitch / @el56</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>CPWG mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:CPWG@icann.org">CPWG@icann.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (<a href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy">https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy</a>) and the website Terms of Service (<a href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos">https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos</a>). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.<o:p></o:p></pre>
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<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin:0in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="xxxmsonormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.gih.com/ocl.html">http://www.gih.com/ocl.html</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
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