<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:garamond,times new roman,serif;font-size:large">Agreed though I'd add that the vast majority of unaware end users, were they aware, would choose not to be involved.<br><br>They're just not that into ICANN. :)<br><br></div><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><font face="garamond, serif" size="4">Best regards,<br>John Laprise, Ph.D.</font><div><br></div></div></div></div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Aug 30, 2023 at 8:05 AM Bill Jouris <<a href="mailto:b_jouris@yahoo.com">b_jouris@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div></div>
<div><br></div><div dir="ltr">Rather than </div></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 40px;border:none;padding:0px"><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div dir="ltr"><i style="font-size:large;font-family:garamond,"new serif";outline:none">We act on behalf of users who <b>do not wish</b> to be involved in or are oblivious to the arcane minutiae of DNS administration and rules that is ICANN but who want the benefits of a safe and stable Internet. </i><span style="font-size:large;font-family:garamond,"new serif";outline:none">[Emphasis added]</span></div></div></blockquote><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div dir="ltr">it might be more accurate to say that we (attempt to) act on behalf of users who do not even realize that ICANN, or the DNS even exists. They aren't so much oblivious to the "<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:large;font-family:garamond,"new serif"">arcane minutiae"</span> as unaware that they exist. It's not so much that they do not wish to be involved as that they are not aware that there is anything to be involved with. </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">A subtle distinction, perhaps, but I would suggest that it is an important one. </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Bill Jouris </div>
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On Tuesday, August 29, 2023 at 06:30:57 AM PDT, John Laprise via CPWG <<a href="mailto:cpwg@icann.org" target="_blank">cpwg@icann.org</a>> wrote:
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<div><div id="m_-1371529345766860607yiv6516251596"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><font face="garamond, times new roman, serif" style="font-size:large">Hi Everyone, </font><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><font face="garamond, times new roman, serif" style="font-size:large">Longtime listener, sometime contributor. </font><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><font face="garamond, times new roman, serif" style="font-size:large">While I am not as critical as Evan, he makes a solid point and it prompts me to intervene. ALAC strives to be a kind of public guardian for Internet users in general. For those of you unfamiliar, public guardians are legal persons who act on behalf of and in the interests of people who are unable to, often minor children and adults unable to make decisions such as those suffering from dementia. In our case, the line is not quite so extreme. </font><i style="font-size:large;font-family:garamond,"new serif"">We act on behalf of users who do not wish to be involved in or are oblivious to the arcane minutiae of DNS administration and rules that is ICANN but who want the benefits of a safe and stable Internet. </i><font face="garamond, times new roman, serif" style="font-size:large">When I was a NARALO ALAC member, that thought/mission was always foremost in my mind and it's what differentiates from every other constituency and council. It's not easy.</font><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><font face="garamond, times new roman, serif" style="font-size:large">Evan said:"</font><span style="font-size:small;font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">End-users don't know and don't care about the domain supply chain." </span><font face="garamond, times new roman, serif" size="4">That <i>might </i>be true. Then again, people don't care about most supply chains until the chain breaks down and then they are quite irate. Our presence is required because we want to ensure the chain does not break.</font></div><div style="font-family:garamond,"times new roman",serif;font-size:large"><br clear="none"></div><div style="font-family:garamond,"times new roman",serif;font-size:large">Now, other constituencies and councils regularly dispute our right to do this, after all it's not like we are truly an accessible democratic institution despite our elections. Just familiarizing oneself enough to meaningfully contribute might constitute a "poll tax." Nonetheless, our mandate and legitimacy come from ICANN itself and it is incumbent upon at large participants to strive to "put on the shoes of end users" everyday before they head out to the next meeting. </div><div style="font-family:garamond,"times new roman",serif;font-size:large"><br clear="none"></div><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><font face="garamond, serif" size="4">Best regards,<br clear="none">John Laprise, Ph.D.</font><div><br clear="none"></div></div></div></div><br clear="none"></div><br clear="none"><div><div id="m_-1371529345766860607yiv6516251596yqt35903"><div dir="ltr">On Tue, Aug 29, 2023 at 12:21 AM Evan Leibovitch via CPWG <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:cpwg@icann.org" target="_blank">cpwg@icann.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">A high-level tangent inspired by the current discussion:</div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"><br clear="none"></div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">A casual reader might look at this thread and come to an observation that there are two separate issues being discussed, that may not have much to do with each other. The conversation that Mike, Steinar, Olivier and others are having concern details -- contract language, specifics about volumes and dollar amounts and assignment of responsibilities. Meanwhile, I have barged in -- surely unwelcome by some -- to challenge the very premises upon which ALAC's participation is being conducted.<br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">I have done this because, in my observation, ALAC lacks -- and has always lacked -- an overarching set of objectives upon which to base strategy and ultimately tactics. We engage in the minutiae of contract language (etc) without clarity of what ALAC -- and what the constituency it is mandated to speak for -- wants from the end result of such engagement.</div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"><br clear="none"></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">
<i>Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat -- Sun Tzu
</i></div></blockquote></div><div><br clear="none"><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">While I was involved deeply in At-Large I would note that any internal attempt to create a coherent statement of purpose would be invariably torpedoed by people insisting that we engage in a never-ending attempt to define the "public interest". As a result, all attempts inevitably sank in the bureaucratic mud. Two separate third-party ICANN reviews of At-Large seemed to wholly overlook the lack of overarching purpose and mandate service while themselves dwelling on the minutiae. It's probably best that we don't depend on outside consultants to define our purpose, but why can't we do it ourselves?<br clear="none"></div></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">WIthout a clear mission, ALAC
has weighed in on many issues in which non-registrant end users have no stake at all. Take vertical integration. End-users don't know and don't care about the domain supply chain. Even domain consumers --
technically outside our remit but closest to end-users in the ICANN food
chain -- could hardly care less if they bought their domain from a
registrar or directly from a registry. And yet there we were at the
virtual table, as if our constituency has a crucial stake in that topic's
outcome. Think of how many parts of the current ALAC agenda fit the same description. Meanwhile, on high-profile issues that WOULD affect end-users,
such as the delegation of .XXX and the attempted private takeover of
.ORG, we were silent. Such choices of action and inaction clearly
telegraph -- throughout ICANN and the world around us -- a lack of both
purpose and focus.<br clear="none">
</div><br clear="none"></div><div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">This glaring deficiency continues to retard ALAC's agency within the rest of the ICANN community. Over the years I have received many private emails insisting that ALAC has more respect now than it did in the past and that it is invited to the policy table more often. To me this is tokenism. I'll be more persuaded that At-Large has the respect of ICANN when we get that second Board seat that was recommended and promised so long ago. Until then, or until a policy we want that is opposed by the domain industry is implemented, I will maintain that ALAC is being pandered to. We are tolerated in working groups so long as we make little line-item corrections and don't challenge their very premises or the ability of contracted parties to maximize revenue. We have the authority to talk directly to the Board, yet we chase after Public Comment solicitations just like anyone in the world can.
We respond to the actions of others, we never initiate or try to set the agenda.
One of the last such initiatives by At-Large, a white paper of which I was a co-author, was received with a smile and summarily binned; not a single response was returned from staff or the community. Maybe the cosmetics have changed in the last 15 years but the underlying politics certainly have not.<br clear="none"></div></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">While the status quo is obviously sustainable -- so long as ALAC members get funded to pretend they're the UNSC at a cavernous U-shaped table three times a year and learn how to play the insider games -- it doesn't do anything to serve At-Large's bylaw mandate. The inmates will continue to run the asylum, because the only entity really capable of making them accountable to the world-at-large is just fine with being tolerated.</div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"><br clear="none"></div><div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">- Evan<br clear="none"></div></div><div><br clear="none"></div></div>
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