[CWG-Stewardship] Do we really need a Contracting Co.?

Tue Dec 2 21:23:10 UTC 2014

On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 10:20 PM, Burr, Becky <Becky.Burr at neustar.biz> wrote:

>   Seun,
>
>  I think your understanding of what is going on may be correct – but that
> is IMHO a mistake.
>

...and just for the record i share the same view as you've stated above.

Cheers!

>
>  b
>
> J. Beckwith Burr
>
> *Neustar, Inc. /* Deputy General Counsel and Chief Privacy Officer
>
> 1775 Pennsylvania Avenue NW, Washington, DC 20006
>
> Office: + 1.202.533.2932  Mobile:  +1.202.352.6367  /
> becky.burr at neustar.biz / www.neustar.biz
>
>   From: Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji at gmail.com>
> Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2014 at 4:13 PM
> To: Becky Burr <becky.burr at neustar.biz>
> Cc: Chuck Gomes <cgomes at verisign.com>, "cwg-stewardship at icann.org" <
> cwg-stewardship at icann.org>
>
> Subject: Re: [CWG-Stewardship] Do we really need a Contracting Co.?
>
>    On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 9:43 PM, Burr, Becky <Becky.Burr at neustar.biz>
> wrote:
>
>>   ICANN needs to be accountable for (1) developing and implementing
>> policy through the multistakeholder process in accordance with its bylaws
>> and (2) actually performing the technical IANA functions in a competent
>> way.   Proper independent review and redress works for the first, and
>> sometimes for the second, but it doesn’t guarantee technical competence.
>> The ability to move IANA functions out of ICANN is most important in the
>> situation where ICANN is incompetent and can’t or won’t  fix the problem.
>> I continue to think that we are making this process much more difficult by
>> trying to deal with broader accountability issues in this track.
>>
>>    Hi Burr,
>
>  I am not sure the current cwg proposal is just looking at technical
> competence of the operator. The way i have come to understand it; is that
> all the proposed structures are being justified on the basis that ICANN is
> not responsive to item 1 and 2 stated above and so they need to be held
> accountable by the proposed new structure (especially with the MRT/PRT) so
> in that case there won't be any basis to insist on any other accountability
> mechanism to be put in place within ICANN
>
>  Cheers!
>
>>
>>
>>  J. Beckwith Burr
>>
>> *Neustar, Inc. /* Deputy General Counsel and Chief Privacy Officer
>>
>> 1775 Pennsylvania Avenue NW, Washington, DC 20006
>>
>> Office: + 1.202.533.2932  Mobile:  +1.202.352.6367  /
>> becky.burr at neustar.biz / www.neustar.biz
>>
>>   From: Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji at gmail.com>
>> Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2014 at 3:21 PM
>> To: Chuck Gomes <cgomes at verisign.com>
>> Cc: "cwg-stewardship at icann.org" <cwg-stewardship at icann.org>
>>
>> Subject: Re: [CWG-Stewardship] Do we really need a Contracting Co.?
>>
>>    Hi Chuck,
>>
>> Thanks a lot for sharing this url....its really useful and i am going to
>> hope that the accountability team are looking at scenarios like that to fix
>> ICANN. Inview of this, there are generally 2 routes:
>>
>>  - Fix the accountability mechanisms within ICANN and let the NTIA role
>> naturally go away
>>
>>  - While the accountability mechanism is yet to be fixed, provide a
>> means by which IANA can still be moved out of ICANN
>>
>>  I presume we are currently going the second route at the moment. So a
>> question that i may ask is, will it not be better to work towards the first
>> route through the second route? This will mean maintaining the ability to
>> move IANA from current operator with an external body (can be an existing
>> body like ISOC, IETF etc) or the lightweight (Contracting Co earlier
>> proposed) and then provide certain principles/mechanisms that this CWG
>> expect to have been addressed within specific time-frame.
>>
>>  That will give ICANN (and its community) enough time to work on
>> improving its accountability measures within the timeline indicated by this
>> CWG.
>>
>>  Regards
>>  On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 2:05 PM, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes at verisign.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>  Seun,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Please see the letter I sent to Fadi in 2013:
>>> https://www.icann.org/resources/correspondence/gomes-to-chehade-2013-08-30-en
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_resources_correspondence_gomes-2Dto-2Dchehade-2D2013-2D08-2D30-2Den&d=AwMFaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=62cJFOifzm6X_GRlaq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k&m=sniwjEyqX-KlwYBcEHMa2VMvj54--czhko-gznTZNyI&s=cMZ8gYzJLCkFvsRC1iv_MEWJLGT-Wkx3fcwNLEJIBXI&e=>
>>> .
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Chuck
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:*cwg-stewardship-bounces at icann.org [mailto:
>>> cwg-stewardship-bounces at icann.org] *On Behalf Of *Seun Ojedeji
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 02, 2014 3:57 AM
>>> *To:* Avri Doria
>>> *Cc:* cwg-stewardship at icann.org
>>> *Subject:* Re: [CWG-Stewardship] Do we really need a Contracting Co.?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 7:33 AM, Avri Doria <avri at acm.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 02-Dec-14 07:16, Seun Ojedeji wrote:
>>>
>>>  I also don't understand the view that ICANN community and corporate
>>> are separate.
>>>
>>>
>>> The ICANN Board and Staff are independent of the Community and can
>>> overrule the community either by a vote of the Board, or by calling an
>>> action 'implementation' that does not require community agreement.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Okay, may i ask if this is happening at the moment and what the NTIA
>>> role has been in making sure it does not happen? because what we are trying
>>> to transition is the NTIA role and not ICANN management itself....if there
>>> is something that needs to be fixed in the ICANN structure then it could be
>>> put in the requirement for transition (most of which should be looked into
>>> by the accountability cwg).
>>>
>>>
>>>  especially since the Board, given its understanding of the its
>>> fiduciary responsibility sees itself as NOT representing the community. Adn
>>> the staff is governed by a CEO that is not subject, in any way, to
>>> community appproval in hiring or contract renewal.  The Community has NO
>>> influence over ICANN Staff.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Well in the RIR world the board (by by-law) acts in the interest of the
>>> organisation. They may also choose not to listen to the community but they
>>> usually wisely choose otherwise.... ;).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  What does that mean? and how is ICANN community different from a
>>> typical RIR community.
>>>
>>> In the RIRs there is no body with a vote that can overrule the will of
>>> the community in policy making.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The RIR board by the by-law could decide not to approve a policy
>>> proposal, its just that they have not had any reason to exercise such
>>> powers. So if you are saying there has been consistence instances where a
>>> policy that achieved consensus in the ICANN community was overruled by the
>>> board, then there is definitely something wrong and will be good to have an
>>> example of such scenario to understand why they took such action and
>>> determine how to avoid such in future. This is how we build the
>>> organisation from inside especially if we understand that ICANN is the home
>>> for gTLD
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  Please when you think of who pays, think of it from the customer
>>> perspective, think of participation, think of the resources that's already
>>> been expended in this current ICG process.
>>>
>>>
>>> How does the contractor paying hurt the consumers?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I think it will be safer to answer this with another question, where
>>> will the contractor get the money to pay from?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I persist in seeing the only real possibility of capture in a massively
>>> multistakeholder body is that the community process can be captured by
>>> ICANN corporate decisions made that disregard the community's consensus,
>>> and that is what we need to protect against.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Looks like you are now referring the MRT to be a MASSIVE
>>> multi-stakeholder body, please can we fashion out the composition and
>>> charter of this organisation so we appreciate what we are looking at. It
>>> sure seem there is going to be a lot of mechanism required to ensure that
>>> the multistakeholder body is indeed inclusive.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>>
>>> avri
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> CWG-Stewardship mailing list
>>> CWG-Stewardship at icann.org
>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cwg-stewardship
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mm.icann.org_mailman_listinfo_cwg-2Dstewardship&d=AwMFaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=62cJFOifzm6X_GRlaq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k&m=sniwjEyqX-KlwYBcEHMa2VMvj54--czhko-gznTZNyI&s=sQ5Q6jLzCAgZPNkjr5Fpp0xVbabUlzidfZRR4jHnQeo&e=>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Seun Ojedeji, Federal University Oye-Ekiti web:      *
>>> *http://www.fuoye.edu.ng
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.fuoye.edu.ng&d=AwMFaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=62cJFOifzm6X_GRlaq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k&m=sniwjEyqX-KlwYBcEHMa2VMvj54--czhko-gznTZNyI&s=GHypwKbVmWeLVjSpjEmVlxxM9E8J5DSj-Vnys1YnxXc&e=>
>>> **Mobile: +2348035233535 <%2B2348035233535>*
>>> *alt email:
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__goog-5F1872880453&d=AwMFaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=62cJFOifzm6X_GRlaq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k&m=sniwjEyqX-KlwYBcEHMa2VMvj54--czhko-gznTZNyI&s=2LTakbB8A0yGGGdo1cmpMO9RrV32tCpqIGIs4HS8lVI&e=>seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng
>>> <seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng>*
>>>
>>> The key to understanding is humility - my view !
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Seun Ojedeji, Federal University Oye-Ekiti web:
>> http://www.fuoye.edu.ng
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.fuoye.edu.ng&d=AwMFaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=62cJFOifzm6X_GRlaq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k&m=sniwjEyqX-KlwYBcEHMa2VMvj54--czhko-gznTZNyI&s=GHypwKbVmWeLVjSpjEmVlxxM9E8J5DSj-Vnys1YnxXc&e=>
>> Mobile: +2348035233535 **alt email:
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__goog-5F1872880453&d=AwMFaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=62cJFOifzm6X_GRlaq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k&m=sniwjEyqX-KlwYBcEHMa2VMvj54--czhko-gznTZNyI&s=2LTakbB8A0yGGGdo1cmpMO9RrV32tCpqIGIs4HS8lVI&e=>seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng
>> <seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng>*
>>
>>  The key to understanding is humility - my view !
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
> *Seun Ojedeji, Federal University Oye-Ekiti web:
> http://www.fuoye.edu.ng
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.fuoye.edu.ng&d=AwMFaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=62cJFOifzm6X_GRlaq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k&m=kppIzBhNPLqAor3nlRYOjeJHpuI7CGxyVC-XHXYeuiQ&s=wSwiZ299TmLbq0OHk5QBIBp0wojAMkiqtFhUgRV0-ZA&e=>
> Mobile: +2348035233535 **alt email:
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__goog-5F1872880453&d=AwMFaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=62cJFOifzm6X_GRlaq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k&m=kppIzBhNPLqAor3nlRYOjeJHpuI7CGxyVC-XHXYeuiQ&s=tdnONzfen2Ikcsk6pjh6oAMGKeh85nq2TMDCvvdSjAA&e=>seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng
> <seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng>*
>
>  The key to understanding is humility - my view !
>
>
>

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Seun Ojedeji,Federal University Oye-Ekitiweb:      http://www.fuoye.edu.ng
<http://www.fuoye.edu.ng> Mobile: +2348035233535**alt email:
<http://goog_1872880453>seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng
<seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng>*

The key to understanding is humility - my view !
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