[CWG-Stewardship] Agenda item 5 - Alternate proposals

h.raiche at internode.on.net h.raiche at internode.on.net
Thu Dec 18 19:07:09 UTC 2014


So well put.  Thank you Bertrand - well said. (and, yes I agree 100%) 
 
Hollly 
 
On Fri 19/12/14  4:38 AM , Bertrand de La Chapelle bdelachapelle at gmail.com sent: 
> Milton, 
> As I mentioned on the call, we need to be careful even when we label 
> this "internal to iCANN" solution. Because we then confuse, as we too 
> often do, ICANN staff, ICANN Board and ICANN community.  
> I think what people exploring alternatives or potential improvements 
> mean is that they want to build upon the existing building blocks of 
> the ICANN community rather than something entirely external.  
> One of the arguments that I think underpins this effort is the 
> perceived vulnerability of any entirely new, unfunded and unstaffed 
> architecture that would in many ways resemble the vulnerability of the 
> early ICANN.   
> Just to try and clarify the terms of the debate.  
> B. 
>  
> "_Le plus beau métier des hommes, cest dunir les hommes_ ", Antoine 
> de Saint Exupéry 
> ("_There is no greater mission for humans than uniting humans_") 
>  
> BERTRAND DE LA CHAPELLE 
>  
> Internet border:none">  
>  
> On Thu, Dec 18, 2014 at 6:10 PM, Milton L Mueller  wrote:    
>  
> Bertrand  
>  
> Correction accepted: I should say the “internal to ICANN 
> solution”….   
>  
>    
>  
> ;-)  
>  
>       
>  
> FROM: Bertrand de La Chapelle [mailto:bdelachapelle at gmail.com]  
> SENT: Thursday, December 18, 2014 11:10 AM 
> TO: Milton L Mueller 
> CC: Alan Greenberg; CWG Stewardship 
> SUBJECT: Re: [CWG-Stewardship] Agenda item 5 - Alternate proposals    
>  
>     
>  
> Milton,    
>  
>      
>  
> can I respectfully but firmly ask you to refrain from labeling people 
> who have concerns with the complexities of the currently discussed 
> architecture as "advocates of ICANN controlling everything".    
>  
>      
>  
> You know it is not true and are too well versed in these discussions 
> not to see that the issues are a bit more complex than that.     
>  
>      
>  
> Such an attitude does not serve the feeling of mutual respect and 
> trust that I would like to prevail in designing a community 
> solution.     
>  
>      
>  
> Thanks.    
>  
>      
>  
> Bertrand    
>  
>        
>  
> "_Le plus beau métier des hommes, cest dunir les hommes_", Antoine 
> de Saint Exupéry 
> ("_There is no greater mission for humans than uniting humans_")   
>  
> BERTRAND DE LA CHAPELLE   
>  
> Internet 
> font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#262626">email bdelachapelle at internet 
> jurisdiction.net 
>  
> email bdelachapelle at gmail.com   
>  
> twitter @IJurisdiction [4] | @bdelachapelle [5]  		 
>  
> mobile +33 (0)6 11 88 33 32 [6]  		 
>  
> www.internetjurisdiction.net [7]   
>  
>     
>  
> On Thu, Dec 18, 2014 at 12:20 PM, Milton L Mueller  wrote:     
>  
> Interesting that Shawn’s membership proposal (the one published in 
> The Hill) is put forward as something “simpler” than the CWG 
> proposal. Though I am sympathetic to this proposal, establishing a 
> membership would be an extremely complicated and drawn-out change, 
> fraught with all kinds of unanticipated implications and 
> implementation difficulties.   
>  
>    
>  
> Likewise, Alan is suggesting that a set of yet-unknown changes coming 
> out of an incomplete process is also “less complicated.” That is 
> not a supportable claim. It would be more accurate to say that the 
> separability we propose here dramatically simplifies the work of the 
> CCWG-Accountability.  
>  
>    
>  
> Del Bianco’s “cross-community membership group” (described at 
> the end of Alan’s message below) is another proposal mentioned. That 
> would be an alternative board that could second-guess ICANN’s board 
> in numerous ways and would create a competing power center. The 
> complications caused by such a structure are __enormous__, far more so 
> than the Contract Co. It is interesting that advocates of ICANN 
> controlling everything see such problems with the MRT but no such 
> problems with a committee that not only mirrors the composition of the 
> MRT but has an unrestricted mandate to overrule the board.   
>  
>    
>  
> --MM  
>  
>       
>  
> FROM: cwg-stewardship-bounces at icann.org 
> [mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces at icann.org] ON BEHALF OF Alan Greenberg 
>  
>  
> Although I believe that the ALAC proposal ( 
> http://forum.icann.org/lists/comments-cwg-naming-transition-01dec14/msg0001 
> 1.html[8] ) is the only such alternative presented here, it is not alone. I 
> am not advocating the exact details of the proposal referenced in the 
> message (see 
> http://www.innovationfiles.org/key-principles-for-the-icann-transition/ 
> [9] and 
> http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/technology/227375-icann-transition-pl 
> an-needs-new-ideas-to-ensure-accountability[10]), but it does demonstrate that we are not unique in wanting a far 
> simpler mode for the new IANA coupled with REAL MULTISTAKEHOLDER 
> ACCOUNTABILITY IN ICANN. 
>  
> I believe that the CCWG *WILL* deliver and I think that we need to 
> factor that into our deliberations. Specifically, is there really a 
> need for the complexity, cost and associated issues of Contract Co. 
> given the same level of control could be provided by a change such as 
> this? 
>  
> Alan 
>  
> ===================   
>  
> From: Steve DelBianco  
> To: Accountability Cross Community  
> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2014 16:20:43 +0000 
> Subject: [CCWG-Accountability] Op-Ed from ITIF regarding permanent 
> cross-community group as ultimate authority 
>  
> This pertains to our discussion yesterday about a permanent, 
> cross-community "˜Membership" group to hold ICANN board and 
> management accountable to the community.  It was described this way 
> in draft3 [11] for work area 2:   
>  
> Amend ICANN bylaws to recognize a permanent cross-community 
> representative structure (all ACs, SOs, Constituencies) with authority 
> to:  
>  
> Appoint members of Affirmation review teams  
>  
> Review a board decision, or resolve a dispute (option to use 
> independent panel)  
>  
> Approve changes to ICANN bylaws or Articles, with 2/3 approval  
>  
> Approve annual proposed ICANN budget  
>  
> Recall one or all ICANN Board members  
>  
> One of the groups proposing [12] a community of stakeholders as 
> ultimate authority posted a relevant Op-Ed [13] in a Washington paper 
> today.  Daniel Castro of the Information Technology & Innovation 
> Foundation (ITIF) wrote:  
>  
> California state law applies since ICANN is a registered nonprofit 
> corporation in the state. As such, California law allows nonprofit 
> organizations to have statutory members. Gunnarson suggests that one 
> way to provide an effective check on the ICANN boards power is to 
> create statutory members of ICANN with extensive authority over the 
> board. This authority could include removing board members, 
> overturning board decisions, etc. The statutory members would likely 
> include the chairs of the various ICANN "supporting organizations" and 
> "advisory committees," such as the Address Supporting Organization 
> (ASO) responsible for IP address policy and the Country Code Name 
> Supporting Organization (ccNSO) responsible for managing the country 
> code top-level domains. To ensure that the statutory members do not 
> hold too much sway, their actions could be limited to situations where 
> there is a supermajority (i.e., consensus).   
>  
> We welcome further elaboration of legal basis to enable this 
> modification to ICANN’s bylaws in conformance with California 
> law. 
>  
> Steve DelBianco 
> Executive Director 
> NetChoice 
>  
> http://www.NetChoice.org [14] and http://blog.netchoice.org [15]    
>  
> +1.202.420.7482 [16]     
>  
> _______________________________________________ 
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> CWG-Stewardship at icann.org 
> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cwg-stewardship [17]        
>  
> Links: 
> ------ 
> [1] https://twitter.com/IJurisdiction 
> [2] https://twitter.com/bdelachapelle 
> [3] http://www.internetjurisdiction.net 
> [4] https://twitter.com/IJurisdiction 
> [5] https://twitter.com/bdelachapelle 
> [6] 
> http://webmail-old.internode.on.net/tel:%2B33%20%280%296%2011%2088%2033%203 
> 2[7] http://www.internetjurisdiction.net 
> [8] 
> http://forum.icann.org/lists/comments-cwg-naming-transition-01dec14/msg0001 
> 1.html[9] 
> http://www.innovationfiles.org/key-principles-for-the-icann-transition/ 
> [10] 
> http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/technology/227375-icann-transition-pl 
> an-needs-new-ideas-to-ensure-accountability[11] 
> https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/51414327/WorkArea2%20Accou 
> ntability%20suggestions%20%5Bdraft%203%5D.pdf?version=1&modificationDat 
> e=1418610739000&api=v2[12] 
> http://www.innovationfiles.org/key-principles-for-the-icann-transition/ 
> [13] 
> http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/technology/227375-icann-transition-pl 
> an-needs-new-ideas-to-ensure-accountability[14] http://www.netchoice.org/ 
> [15] http://blog.netchoice.org/ 
> [16] http://webmail-old.internode.on.net/tel:%2B1.202.420.7482 
> [17] https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cwg-stewardship 
>  
>  
 


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