[Epdp-dt] Working Methods

Sat Jun 30 20:45:19 UTC 2018

While I think it is reasonable to ask how much transcription costs, ultimately transparency is an institutional concept mandated by our own Operating Procedures and a conceptual component of the principle of democracy. The legitimation of any authority, including that of ICANN, requires decisions that are reached, including the political and non-political objectives that feed into these decisions, to be properly understood and withstand scrutiny. Scrutiny is impossible without detailed and accessible records. This is negotiable only up to a point. We can negotiate over who does the transcripts or how long they take to produce (and I don't think they need to be fast-tracked ordinarily), but we cannot negotiate over whether transcripts are produced.

This EPDP will attract a great level of interest and scrutiny from across the ICANN community. I think it is of the highest importance for the credibility of the GNSO that our agenda setting and decision making processes be seen as being as transparent as possible, particularly in light of the attention that this EPDP will generate.

—Ayden

‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On 30 June 2018 10:38 PM, Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele at blacknight.com> wrote:

> We don’t have an actual cost though, do we?
>
> Mr Michele Neylon
>
> https://www.blacknight.com/
> https://michele.blog
> Intl. +353 (0)59 9183072
> Sent from mobile so usual disclaimers about typos etc apply
>
> On 30 Jun 2018, at 14:29, Stephanie Perrin <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:
>
>> There are so many advantages...transcripts are searchable, you can do analytics on them with easily available tools (Discourse analysis, e.g.), you can copy and put it through google translate....a matter that is rather basic in terms of fundamental fairness to non-english language speakers.  I think for the amount of money we are blowing on belated compliance with DP law, this is peanuts.
>>
>> cheers Stephanie
>>
>> On 2018-06-29 14:16, Martin Pablo Silva Valent wrote:
>>
>>>  Oh yes! Specially for timing, I can read insanely faster than I have to listen to a recording (even if I only have to listen to it once).
>>>
>>> Martin
>>>
>>>> On 29 Jun 2018, at 07:00, Austin, Donna <Donna.Austin at team.neustar> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> A question for our multi-lingual colleagues. Are transcripts better/easier for non-English speakers to review a meeting than listening to the recording?
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 28, 2018, at 5:24 PM, Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele at blacknight.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If the transcription was “cost effective” then I wouldn’t have as much of an issue with it, but I’d prefer we had some visibility on costs before we make a commitment to it
>>>>>
>>>>> A lot of calls / meetings have a lot of spurious discussions which aren’t adding any value. Of course there is value in the meetings overall, but you should be able to get that from the minutes / notes of the meetings
>>>>> [https://youtu.be/z_tiqlBFjbk](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__youtu.be_z-5FtiqlBFjbk&d=DwMGaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=CwipU91YB6EkpFXK9ynnT_QUef4yC5p7jpsDm8cU97g&m=n3C0DJgkQIyr0HoJHZTeIN36Y0AO0HE-eO2cj94PCdo&s=vvqDp0M6V7T0SB--m1mrTtrib1LiJ0yd_1kuKrixVWs&e=)
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Mr Michele Neylon
>>>>> Blacknight Solutions
>>>>> Hosting, Colocation & Domains
>>>>> [https://www.blacknight.com/](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.blacknight.com_&d=DwMGaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=CwipU91YB6EkpFXK9ynnT_QUef4yC5p7jpsDm8cU97g&m=n3C0DJgkQIyr0HoJHZTeIN36Y0AO0HE-eO2cj94PCdo&s=4GoSbA0reGcerFxZphEnC1dQKCIHdPldkTeiFxX7fFA&e=)
>>>>> [http://blacknight.blog/](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__blacknight.blog_&d=DwMGaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=CwipU91YB6EkpFXK9ynnT_QUef4yC5p7jpsDm8cU97g&m=n3C0DJgkQIyr0HoJHZTeIN36Y0AO0HE-eO2cj94PCdo&s=DRmsyb0uCS74iam9yMz3ThaRYBc8mQZCGSR89xB8biQ&e=)
>>>>> Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072
>>>>> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
>>>>> Personal blog: [https://michele.blog/](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__michele.blog_&d=DwMGaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=CwipU91YB6EkpFXK9ynnT_QUef4yC5p7jpsDm8cU97g&m=n3C0DJgkQIyr0HoJHZTeIN36Y0AO0HE-eO2cj94PCdo&s=YkqOfoXTlsEuCPvLLcXTrLiREkiHct-aZhWb5EvCtKM&e=)
>>>>> Some thoughts: [https://ceo.hosting/](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__ceo.hosting_&d=DwMGaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=CwipU91YB6EkpFXK9ynnT_QUef4yC5p7jpsDm8cU97g&m=n3C0DJgkQIyr0HoJHZTeIN36Y0AO0HE-eO2cj94PCdo&s=e159ARWweTxJY7yC-i5sBUuUfYKzbmvetN1FFZ23ulA&e=)
>>>>> -------------------------------
>>>>> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
>>>>> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland  Company No.: 370845
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Carlos Raul Gutierrez <carlosraul at gutierrez.se>
>>>>> Date: Thursday 28 June 2018 at 16:19
>>>>> To: "mpsilvavalent at gmail.com" <mpsilvavalent at gmail.com>
>>>>> Cc: Michele Neylon <michele at blacknight.com>, "epdp-dt at icann.org" <epdp-dt at icann.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Epdp-dt] Working Methods
>>>>>
>>>>> All cloud services offer now voice to text, and ti takes just a little bit of money and a few seconds of ai computational power:
>>>>>
>>>>> [https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/amazon-transcribe-scalable-and-accurate-automatic-speech-recognition/](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aws.amazon.com_blogs_aws_amazon-2Dtranscribe-2Dscalable-2Dand-2Daccurate-2Dautomatic-2Dspeech-2Drecognition_&d=DwQGaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=CwipU91YB6EkpFXK9ynnT_QUef4yC5p7jpsDm8cU97g&m=n3C0DJgkQIyr0HoJHZTeIN36Y0AO0HE-eO2cj94PCdo&s=mq1skb5YZgLsfca_9RuAVvgxt5VX7GyjxAfJXEdkIF0&e=)
>>>>>
>>>>> The problem is not the transcription, but the process ICANN (still) uses for transcriptions
>>>>>
>>>>> ---
>>>>> Carlos Raúl Gutiérrez
>>>>> carlosraul at gutierrez.se
>>>>> +506 8837 7176
>>>>> Aparatado 1571-1000
>>>>>
>>>>> COSTA RICA
>>>>>
>>>>> El 2018-06-28 16:10, Martin Pablo Silva Valent escribió:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I agree with Ayden that transcript are a useful feature for this kind of work at icann. And we already have automated transcript as far as I know, we can ask for opinon to staff towards cost, but is not intuitive to me that transcripts are not worthy in such a special case. The value for transparency and the ability to read debate is also very useful.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Martín
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 27, 2018, 19:29 Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele at blacknight.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ayden
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I disagree with the transcription of all meetings. The costs involved with that are disproportionately high and ICANN funds would be better directed elsewhere
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I agree with most of your other points.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Michele
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Mr Michele Neylon
>>>>>>> Blacknight Solutions
>>>>>>> Hosting, Colocation & Domains
>>>>>>> [https://www.blacknight.com/](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.blacknight.com_&d=DwMGaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=CwipU91YB6EkpFXK9ynnT_QUef4yC5p7jpsDm8cU97g&m=n3C0DJgkQIyr0HoJHZTeIN36Y0AO0HE-eO2cj94PCdo&s=4GoSbA0reGcerFxZphEnC1dQKCIHdPldkTeiFxX7fFA&e=)
>>>>>>> [http://blacknight.blog/](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__blacknight.blog_&d=DwMGaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=CwipU91YB6EkpFXK9ynnT_QUef4yC5p7jpsDm8cU97g&m=n3C0DJgkQIyr0HoJHZTeIN36Y0AO0HE-eO2cj94PCdo&s=DRmsyb0uCS74iam9yMz3ThaRYBc8mQZCGSR89xB8biQ&e=)
>>>>>>> Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072
>>>>>>> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
>>>>>>> Personal blog: [https://michele.blog/](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__michele.blog_&d=DwMGaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=CwipU91YB6EkpFXK9ynnT_QUef4yC5p7jpsDm8cU97g&m=n3C0DJgkQIyr0HoJHZTeIN36Y0AO0HE-eO2cj94PCdo&s=YkqOfoXTlsEuCPvLLcXTrLiREkiHct-aZhWb5EvCtKM&e=)
>>>>>>> Some thoughts: [https://ceo.hosting/](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__ceo.hosting_&d=DwMGaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=CwipU91YB6EkpFXK9ynnT_QUef4yC5p7jpsDm8cU97g&m=n3C0DJgkQIyr0HoJHZTeIN36Y0AO0HE-eO2cj94PCdo&s=e159ARWweTxJY7yC-i5sBUuUfYKzbmvetN1FFZ23ulA&e=)
>>>>>>> -------------------------------
>>>>>>> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
>>>>>>> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland  Company No.: 370845
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: Epdp-dt <epdp-dt-bounces at icann.org> on behalf of Ayden Férdeline <icann at ferdeline.com>
>>>>>>> Reply-To: Ayden Férdeline <icann at ferdeline.com>
>>>>>>> Date: Wednesday 27 June 2018 at 17:34
>>>>>>> To: "epdp-dt at icann.org" <epdp-dt at icann.org>
>>>>>>> Subject: [Epdp-dt] Working Methods
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would like to request several revisions be made to the EPDP Working Methods please:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1) All meetings must be recorded and transcribed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please revise this text from:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In addition to the standard services provided to GNSO PDP Working Groups such as policy staff support, mailing lists and regular conference calls, including recording and transcription where needed (frequency and duration to be decided by EPDP team), the EPDP team will need appropriate support to:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All calls of the EPDP must be recorded and transcribed, and said recordings and call transcriptions must be publicly accessible from the ICANN website. Standard support offered to GNSO PDP Working Groups, including but not limited to the provision of a wiki space, archived mailing lists, and conference call facilities, will be required. In addition, the EPDP will need appropriate support to:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2) Google Docs may only be used in conjunction with Google Vault.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please revise the text from:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the EPDP Team should consider which tools provide the best flexibility to facilitate online collaboration, such as the wiki and Google docs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the EPDP Team should consider which tools provide the best flexibility to facilitate online collaboration, but it must do so in accordance with the principles of accountability and transparency that are so important to the GNSO. If Google Docs or other G Suite products are used, it must be used in conjunction with Google Vault, which logs data for archival purposes. Similarly, if other tools are used, they may be used only if they preserve information to a level that meets or exceeds eDiscovery standards in California, being the location of ICANN's headquarters.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 3) Translation of executive summary and recommendations of the initial report for public comment, and of the entire final report, into ICANN's official languages.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Suggested text:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The substantive work of the EPDP must be translated into ICANN's official languages in order to provide non-English-fluent stakeholders with an equal level of access to review the work of the EPDP. For the initial report(s), this must consist of the executive summary and recommendations, and for the final report, this must be a translation of the entire report.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>>> Ayden Férdeline
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Epdp-dt mailing list
>>>>>>> Epdp-dt at icann.org
>>>>>>> [https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/epdp-dt](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mm.icann.org_mailman_listinfo_epdp-2Ddt&d=DwMGaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=CwipU91YB6EkpFXK9ynnT_QUef4yC5p7jpsDm8cU97g&m=n3C0DJgkQIyr0HoJHZTeIN36Y0AO0HE-eO2cj94PCdo&s=NcAFBsM3QosMQBljp1z92iaJHH5KK4oskW3NvlC2MAs&e=)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Epdp-dt mailing list
>>>>>> Epdp-dt at icann.org
>>>>>> [https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/epdp-dt](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mm.icann.org_mailman_listinfo_epdp-2Ddt&d=DwMGaQ&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=CwipU91YB6EkpFXK9ynnT_QUef4yC5p7jpsDm8cU97g&m=n3C0DJgkQIyr0HoJHZTeIN36Y0AO0HE-eO2cj94PCdo&s=NcAFBsM3QosMQBljp1z92iaJHH5KK4oskW3NvlC2MAs&e=)
>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Epdp-dt mailing list
>>>>> Epdp-dt at icann.org
>>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mm.icann.org_mailman_listinfo_epdp-2Ddt&d=DwICAg&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=CwipU91YB6EkpFXK9ynnT_QUef4yC5p7jpsDm8cU97g&m=n3C0DJgkQIyr0HoJHZTeIN36Y0AO0HE-eO2cj94PCdo&s=NcAFBsM3QosMQBljp1z92iaJHH5KK4oskW3NvlC2MAs&e=
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Epdp-dt mailing list
>>> Epdp-dt at icann.org
>>>
>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/epdp-dt
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Epdp-dt mailing list
>> Epdp-dt at icann.org
>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/epdp-dt
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