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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Dear all, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Please</span><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"> find below the notes from today’s meeting on </span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Thursday</span><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">,<span style="color:black">
</span>20 January 2022 </span><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">at </span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">13:</span><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">3<span style="color:black">0</span></span><span style="color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"> UTC.</span><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Kind regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Ariel, Steve, and Emily<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 1.0pt 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">Action Items:<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Action Item #1: Leadership team will update the recommendations based on today’s discussion and share with the EPDP Team for review.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><u><span lang="EN-US">Notes – IDNs EPDP Call – 20 January 2022<o:p></o:p></span></u></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u>Welcome & Chair Updates<o:p></o:p></u></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l4 level1 lfo8"><span lang="EN-US">The leadership team continues to look into reordering charter questions and will provide feedback in a week or two. They will only suggest changes to the order if they think there is substantive
benefit. The EPDP Team will work through the rest of Topic A before any changes are made to the order.</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l4 level1 lfo8">Update on GNSO Council Approach to IDN Implementation Guidelines v.4.0<span lang="EN-US">: The Council has agreed with the Board’s suggestion to continue to defer items that overlap with the EPDP. The Council
drafted a letter identifying items in the Guidelines that overlap with the EDPD charter. This is a discussion item on today’s Council call and the letter is expected to be sent by the end of the week. As liaisons, Dennis and Anil will relay relevant updates
to the ccNSO and ccPDP4. </span><o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u>Charter question A5<o:p></o:p></u></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l1 level1 lfo9"><span lang="EN-US">Last week, the EPDP Team discussed with SSAC members whether there should be a ceiling mechanism for variants. This week, the EPDP Team will reflect on the SSAC’s input.</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l1 level1 lfo9"><span lang="EN-US">Follow up on data collection exercise for this charter question: Org checked all scripts in the RZ-LGR and those that will be incorporated in next version to see if there are mechanisms
in place to reduce the number of allocatable variants.</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l1 level1 lfo9"><span lang="EN-US">Presentation of results: slide 4 lists scripts with no variant labels, scripts with no allocatable variant labels, and scripts that have allocatable variant labels.</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l1 level1 lfo9"><span lang="EN-US">Scripts with allocatable variant labels: Arabic, Bengali, Chinese, Greek, Latin, Myanmar, Tamil.</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l1 level1 lfo9"><span lang="EN-US">Question: Does this list only cover gTLDs and ccTLDs?</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l1 level1 lfo9"><span lang="EN-US">Answer: The same would apply to both gTLDs and ccTLDs. It includes all scripts in the RZ-LGR.</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l1 level1 lfo9"><span lang="EN-US">Question: What do we have these three categories listed on slide 4? Is the categorization a technical decision or a policy issue?</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l1 level1 lfo9"><span lang="EN-US">Two distinctions: First is the question of variants versus no allocatable variants (column 1 versus column 2). This depends on the judgment of the script community and the way they define
variants for the script. For those scripts that have variants, there is the question of whether they are allocatable (column 2 versus column 3). The question about whether they are allocatable is primarily an issue of usability. Once you define something as
a variant and determine that it will be treated as such, the security aspect is contained, but the usability aspect is not. Allocation may be appropriate for usability reasons.
</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l1 level1 lfo9"><span lang="EN-US">Clarification: The security challenges are the same for column 2 and 3, arising from the fact that there could be code points that are the same within a script or between scripts. By declaring
such code points as variant code points, the security issues are addressed in both column 2 and 3. We may want to have them as allocatable because of usability requirements.
</span><o:p></o:p>
<ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="circle">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l1 level2 lfo9"><span lang="EN-US">Question: Is there a reason to think that security issues might change as we add more scripts and that security panels will need to reassess allocatable variants?</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l1 level2 lfo9"><span lang="EN-US">Clarification: When saying that the security issues are addressed by considering the labels variants, this is referring to security issues as defined in a limited context – those with
respect to “same” code points. It does not address all possible security issues, for example those related to string similarity.</span><o:p></o:p></li></ul>
</li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l1 level1 lfo9"><span lang="EN-US">Comment: Evaluation at the root level is to address similar looking TLDs. Providing an example of the difference between allocatable and non-allocatable, in Chinese U+39DF = U+64D3 are
considered equivalent. If you apply for the TLD to the left, the one to the right can’t be applied for independently. The question is whether the two can be allocated to the same entity. The question is whether the label stands on its own and is unique. If
it is not, an application for the TLD should fail. </span><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l1 level1 lfo9"><span lang="EN-US">Org data collection: Looking at scripts in column 3 on slide 4, org went through existing list of TLDs which are delegated and ran them through the RZ-LGR to see how many variants are
created. See slides 5-6. Most scripts have been able to put a reasonable ceiling on the number of variants. There are at least two scripts – Arabic and Chinese that might create an unanticipated number of variant labels.</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l1 level1 lfo9"><span lang="EN-US">Question: Is the analysis in slide 4 an official analysis?
</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l1 level1 lfo9"><span lang="EN-US">Answer: ICANN org staff collated information from the RZ-LGR proposals for use by this group.</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l1 level1 lfo9"><span lang="EN-US">Question: For the Latin script proposal, does the analysis take into account public comments that have been received.</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l1 level1 lfo9"><span lang="EN-US">Response: Yes, the public comments have been taken into account and they don’t impact definitions of allocatable variants.</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l1 level1 lfo9"><span lang="EN-US">Comment: The SSAC members seemed to agree that we shouldn’t come up with an arbitrary limit/ceiling value but focus on evaluation criteria in order to understand that the registry can
manage any issues that arise with variants.</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l1 level1 lfo9"><span lang="EN-US">Question: Do the Registries and Registrars have insight into the challenges that arise with the bundling exercise?</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l1 level1 lfo9"><span lang="EN-US">Comment: When you apply for the TLD, you shouldn’t automatically be granted variants. You should be protected against other applicants obtaining variants. If ICANN wants to offer variants,
from a Registry perspective and a DNS perspective, that’s a separate zone and there is maintenance of two zone files involved. It’s two separate TLDs that the Registry needs to facilitate and operate.</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l1 level1 lfo9"><span lang="EN-US">Comment: In general, the concept of IDN variants is not “look alike.” In Chinese, up to 5% of users will type the variant. It’s not just an issue of protection, it’s also an issue of usability,
at least in the Chinese case.</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l1 level1 lfo9"><span lang="EN-US">Comment: Agree that we shouldn’t automatically give applicants variants, but the question is whether there should be a limit.
</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l1 level1 lfo9"><span lang="EN-US">Org comment: When we are generating allocatable variants through the RZ-LGR process, even though panels work to manage the number of allocatable variants, the process still over-generates
as a byproduct of making some of the solutions work. When people use variants, they do it from a language perspective. Since the RZ-LGR is script based, variants are generated with code points across languages in the script. Therefore, not all allocatable
variants are equally usable.</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l1 level1 lfo9"><span lang="EN-US">Questions: Should further guidelines be developed and if so, should the working group provide recommendations and/or implementation guidance for those guidelines?</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l1 level1 lfo9"><span lang="EN-US">Summary: This is a limited issue impacting a limited number of scripts. We are not recommending a ceiling value. There is some support for idea that this is something for the market to
provide for. We may come back to put some ideas in place for the guidelines with input from the Registries and Registrars.</span><o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u>Charter question A6 <o:p></o:p></u></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l6 level1 lfo10"><span lang="EN-US">Org question: The are a set of variants labels that are blocked. There will be a smaller set, allocatable to the same applicant. There will be an even smaller set that will be delegated
variant labels. If a variant label or string is delegated, it has a high stability bar. It should remain delegated unless there is an extreme circumstance. Allocatable variants are not yet in the root, so changes there may be less critical. Since for blocked
strings are not able to be used, changes there are even less critical. For recommendations 1.4 and 1.5, we talk about variants – do we want to differentiate between these three groups?
</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l6 level1 lfo10"><span lang="EN-US">Question: What are the implications of the different buckets referenced above as they apply to recommendations 1.4 and 1.5?</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l6 level1 lfo10"><span lang="EN-US">Clarification: If a variant TLD was delegated and in the root and there is a change in the RZ-LGR saying that that variant should be blocked, or that it is no longer a variant, it should
be grandfathered. But if the variant is blocked and then it becomes allocatable, that doesn’t create as significant and issue compared to changing something that is in the root zone and delegated. The categories speak to how much of a stability impact that
change can have on the root zone.</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l6 level1 lfo10"><span lang="EN-US">Comment: Suggest restricting these recommendations to delegated and allocated variants and not address blocked variants. There is no harm done if the blocked variant is taken away due
to a change.</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l6 level1 lfo10"><span lang="EN-US">Support expressed for limiting the recommendations to delegated and allocated variants.</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l6 level1 lfo10"><span lang="EN-US">Suggestion to use “variant labels” instead of “variants.”</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l6 level1 lfo10"><span lang="EN-US">Question from org regarding recommendation 1.6: RZ-LGR has a built-in stability clause. Would you still want to go back and update RZ-LGR procedures? Additional comment: It may not be
possible to anticipate all applicable circumstances that would result in an update to the RZ-LGR.</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l6 level1 lfo10"><span lang="EN-US">Comment: We did think some elaboration of the circumstances would be helpful for predictability.</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l6 level1 lfo10"><span lang="EN-US">Question regarding 1.5: what are we trying to say by “extremely strong”? Are we trying to say that there are circumstances where the presumption could be rebutted?
</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l6 level1 lfo10"><span lang="EN-US">Question: After the public comment process, will it be the panel that makes the decision about grandfathering?
</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l6 level1 lfo10"><span lang="EN-US">Clarification: Determining whether a specific label should be delegated in the root zone is outside the purview of the Generation Panels, as their responsibility is currently defined.
</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l6 level1 lfo10"><span lang="EN-US">Comment: This group can set a policy that if there is a change, an existing TLD is grandfathered. The question is if there is a presumption, what if anything can result in an exception.
</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l6 level1 lfo10"><span lang="EN-US">Comment: The Generation Panel does not have the power to change Registry contracts as currently set up. Contracted parties have little reason to agree to change this.</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l6 level1 lfo10"><span lang="EN-US">Suggestion: Grandfathering should be absolute in recommendation 1.5.
</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l6 level1 lfo10"><span lang="EN-US">Suggestion: in recommendation 1.5: "except as set forth in 1.6, all existing gtLDs…….will be grandfathered."</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l6 level1 lfo10"><span lang="EN-US">Question: Can we seek public opinion before granting grandfather status?</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l6 level1 lfo10"><span lang="EN-US">Response: This may be covered in recommendation 1.4.</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l6 level1 lfo10"><span lang="EN-US">Comment: This will be implemented in contracts. We shouldn’t give a panel power over contracts they are not a party to. It’s ok for the panel to make a recommendation, subject to a process
between ICANN and the Registry. But the panel is not a party to the contract. </span>
<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l6 level1 lfo10"><span lang="EN-US">Comment: Further discussion may be needed about what that process would be following the recommendation from the panel.</span><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l6 level1 lfo10"><span lang="EN-US">Summary: Recommendation 1.5 to be updated to say that the TLD will be grandfathered, except as set forth in 1.6. Additional edits may be appropriate for 1.6.</span><o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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