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<p style="margin:0in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Hi All,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><br>
Please find below the notes and action items from today’s meeting on 20 July 2023 at 12:00 UTC.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Best Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Ariel, Steve, and Dan<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p style="margin:0in;border:none;padding:0in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p style="margin:0in"><b><u><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p><span style="text-decoration:none"> </span></o:p></span></u></b></p>
<p style="margin:0in"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Notes and Action Items - IDNs EPDP Call – 20 July 2023 </span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Action Items </span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Action Item 1: Leadership Team to propose a suggested update / enhancement to IG 3.6 in order to align with the conservatism principle. </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Action Item 2: Leadership team to propose suggested edits to clarify Rec 3.24 and Rec 4.1 by taking into account public comment received. </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Notes</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Roll Call and SOI Updates (2 min) <o:p></o:p></span>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">No updates<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
</li><li style="color:black;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1;vertical-align:baseline">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Welcome and Chair Updates (5 min) <o:p></o:p></span>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Chair provided an introduction and a reminder for the GNSO Council Call at 21:00 UTC of the same day<o:p></o:p></span></li><li style="color:black;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0in;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1;vertical-align:baseline">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Chair welcomed Daniel Gluck from ICANN staff to the support team for the IDN EPDP<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
</li><li style="color:black;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1;vertical-align:baseline">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">“Conservatism” Principle Discussion (up to 110 min) <o:p></o:p></span>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Chair described the principle of conservatism <o:p></o:p></span></li><li style="color:black;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0in;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1;vertical-align:baseline">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">There was a discussion of recommendations from other policy processes that the board has not accepted, due to a variety of reasons.<o:p></o:p></span>
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<li style="color:black;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0in;mso-list:l0 level3 lfo1;vertical-align:baseline">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">The goal is to frame recommendations and discussions in a way that the Board will accept and not cause any knock-on effect dismissal of recommendations. <o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
</li><li style="color:black;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0in;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1;vertical-align:baseline">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Most discussions during this meeting will capture recommendation 8.1<o:p></o:p></span></li><li style="color:black;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0in;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1;vertical-align:baseline">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Conservatism for this EPDP relates to the Security and Stability of the DNS. It should be cautious and as the principle states “doubts should always be resolved in favor of rejecting”<o:p></o:p></span>
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<li style="color:black;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0in;mso-list:l0 level3 lfo1;vertical-align:baseline">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">An EPDP Team member discussed his opinion on the conservatism principle and how it relates to limiting progress. It would be difficult to limit any security and stability risks as this is meant to
be an innovative process. Conservatism should be balanced with other goals and values<o:p></o:p></span></li><li style="color:black;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0in;mso-list:l0 level3 lfo1;vertical-align:baseline">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Another participant discussed the ICANN Org comment on Rec 8.1 regarding the ceiling value and mentioned that the specific number may be too narrowly scoped. This value is just one part of the entire
equation and there are other important aspects to consider. For example, ensuring the same entity is in control of each variant gTLD helps being conservative. There are currently domains with what could be considered “variants” of domains at the extreme level
(plural and misspelled domains) but they should not be considered. The management of the complexity behind the variants of discussion for the EPDP should be considered and applied to the conservatism principle. Again, the number is too far at the forefront.
Conservatism should be applied to manage risks associated with other items like the same entity principle. <o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
</li></ul>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Agreement from multiple members via chat<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
<li style="color:black;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0in;mso-list:l0 level3 lfo2;vertical-align:baseline">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">A participant discussed that within this context, the policy should not address the security aspect but the usability aspect that the SSAC has discussed regarding having multiple top and second level
domains where you have 16 domain names instead of the one that was originally wanted. There are certainly communities that want to automatically activate all variants for specific scripts. Registrants may not always be in control and end up with many variant
domains to manage. It is a management challenge that is trying to be resolved by this process. Regarding the number of variant TLDs that can be delegated, the ccTLD is easy to manage, but the gTLD is harder to manage. The need vs want differentiation is taken
away and the specific number may throw people off from registering a domain. Current recommendations have different levels that interact with each other. In some cases the structure leads to applicants that are not sure on whether to apply for the variant
label TLDs to apply for them now because they are free instead of during a future round where it would cost additional money. This might not be the most conservative approach, though it may be practical. <o:p></o:p></span></li><li style="color:black;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0in;mso-list:l0 level3 lfo2;vertical-align:baseline">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">There was a reply that at an industry / community level, it will be important to see the IDNs being adopted around the world. There are going to be complex operations and instructions will be complex
just by the nature of registries needing to manage new variants. The policy recommendations at the time to manage risks can be implemented, but the more restrictions for IDN variant adoption, the harder it will be to get desired results of promoting IDNs.<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
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<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:2.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level4 lfo3;vertical-align:baseline">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">o<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Another member agreed with what that reply said. Building on his point, the Market Forces will work to avoid the complexity and address the need. An applicant
saying they would like variant gTLDs because they are free does not necessarily mean they will automatically get them. They may be denied because that is not a valid reason to request variant gTLDs. Their competency for managing the variant gTLDs needs to
be demonstrated . The market forces can help enforce conservatism. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">A member replied in chat “IDNs must be handled like any other domain in order for them to have a bright future. Registry / registrars must make sure that
this happens in order for IDNs to be treated similarly to other domains.”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">A participant mentioned that the focus should be changed to the manageability of the variant gTLDs by the applicant<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">ccTLD constraints were discussed, including the strings being in the same language that is the official language of the country. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">In chat there was a reply “perhaps we can simply add an implementation guidance to ensure that IDN variant TLDs are meaningful representation of the primary
applied for string”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">One participant agreed in chat, while another commented “I think that would push the implementation to something a lot more complex? Who would be adjudicating
the 'meaningfulness'?”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">The group discussed the focus on evaluation of need for variant gTLDs and verifying the ability to manage the TLDs, as well as the complexities and possible
interventions for registrants. There is also the ability to make changes for a second round of TLD offerings. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">A discussion in the chat is listed as follows:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">“Those mnemonics would not need variants? unless the IDN variants are inherently meaningful representations of each other like simp/trad Chinese”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">“What about other scripts?”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">“It's not that difficult to ascertain actually, in the 2012 round, there was one question on what the TLD meant and is intended to mean... we just need
to evaluate the variant against that too?... however, the 2012 round evaluated that same question”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">“One script is already a given by the RZ-LGR, because there are no (or only in exceptional cases) cross script allocatable variants”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">“I think we were told that only Arabic and Chinese has allocatable variants”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">“For existing gTLDs, only these two scripts have allocatable variants according to RZ-LGR. But for future applicants, potentially 5 additional scripts may
have variant applications”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Recommendations 8.1, 3.11, 3.12, and 3.14 are non-conservative recommendations. <o:p></o:p></span>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">8.1 due to a lack of ceiling value<o:p></o:p></span></li><li style="color:black;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0in;mso-list:l0 level3 lfo4;vertical-align:baseline">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">3.11 due to having the same base application fees for four variants <o:p></o:p></span></li><li style="color:black;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0in;mso-list:l0 level3 lfo4;vertical-align:baseline">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">3.12 due to additional variant labels may incurring additional fees<o:p></o:p></span></li><li style="color:black;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0in;mso-list:l0 level3 lfo4;vertical-align:baseline">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">3.14 due to waiving the base application fee for existing ROs <o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">The Chair asked ICANN Org to walk the participants through four potential paths forward as a prompt to brainstorm within the group to address the conservatism principle<o:p></o:p></span>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Path 1 would keep rec 8.1 and make the other recommendations moderately conservative (lower the upper limit of free allocatable variant labels)<o:p></o:p></span></li><li style="color:black;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0in;mso-list:l0 level3 lfo4;vertical-align:baseline">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Path 2 would make rec 8.1 slightly conservative, 3.11 as is, and then 3.12 and 3.14 slightly conservative. (Setting the ceiling value of 4 and allowing exceptions with defined review periods, and
changing “may to must” regarding additional fees for 3.12 and 3.14)<o:p></o:p></span></li><li style="color:black;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0in;mso-list:l0 level3 lfo4;vertical-align:baseline">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Path 3 would make all four recommendations moderately conservative (For 8.1, set ceiling value below 4, and allow exceptions. For the other three recs, change the upper limit to ceiling values and
change “may to must” regarding additional fees)<o:p></o:p></span></li><li style="color:black;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0in;mso-list:l0 level3 lfo4;vertical-align:baseline">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Path 4 would make all four recommendations highly conservative (For 8.1 set the ceiling value below 4 with no exceptions. Remove Rec 3.12. Remove provisions in 3.14 regarding applying the hard 4
cap to existing ROs)<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">From the Chair in chat “I acknowledge that on the back of the conversation we’ve just had, that ‘no change’ to our recommendations is what I’m hearing. However, I’d still like to run through these
options for consideration. The review would be built in as a ‘must’ to review whether the ceiling value is warranted”<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">A reply in chat said, “I think we better align with ccTLDs rather than make arbitrary limits... or else it would be a divergence from a policy standpoint?”<o:p></o:p></span></li><li style="color:black;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0in;mso-list:l0 level5 lfo6;vertical-align:baseline">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Additional discussion on this mentioned that aligning with the ccTLD would be problematic due to the nature of ccTLDs having the natural script / language barriers. One response could be to limit
four free variant labels to two. This would cover Chinese and Latin. <o:p></o:p></span></li><li style="color:black;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0in;mso-list:l0 level5 lfo6;vertical-align:baseline">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">A third reply in chat said “but for such vanity names, there could still be meaningful representation of the vanity name, or else the IDN variant TLD should not be allocated? because users would
not identify them as "same"”<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">The Vice Chair discussed other recommendations and implementation guidelines and asked whether the group would be interested in discussing the further changing IG 3.6 to a recommendation. <o:p></o:p></span>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">This was agreed to by multiple members..<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Following up on the prior suggestion of lowering the number of free allocatable variant labels, the Chair asked the Team for their opinions. There was push back from different members, for reasons
including disadvantages for Arabic, with no additional support for the idea.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li style="color:black;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0in;mso-list:l0 level3 lfo6;vertical-align:baseline">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">The EPDP Team preliminarily agreed on no change to Rec 8.1, 3.11, 3.12, and 3.14, but planned to revisit IG 3.6 in conjunction with Rec 3.5 and consider elevating 3.6 to a recommendation. <o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
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<p style="margin:0in"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Action Item:
</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Leadership Team to propose suggested update / enhancement to IG 3.6 in order to align with the conservatism principle. </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Continue with Public Comment Review (Start at IG 3.23) (time-permitting)<o:p></o:p></span>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Ariel Liang, ICANN Org, walked through some<a href="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13s_6L-bRx6fsII34QR-65lbqjmqFU8GH2_b8X-8Qsjc/edit?usp=sharing"><span style="color:#1155CC"> public comments
on other recommendations.</span></a><o:p></o:p></span>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">3.23 - No Comment<o:p></o:p></span></li><li style="color:black;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0in;mso-list:l1 level3 lfo7;vertical-align:baseline">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">3.24 <o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">A participant mentioned some of the limitations of the tools available and the ability for reviews to take place in future rounds.<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">The chair asked if this was workable at all?<o:p></o:p></span>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">ICANN Org replied that while the first part of the preliminary recommendation makes sense, the second part seems to imply that ICANN org must monitor potential updates to the RZ-LGR to check whether
a disqualified string can be applied-for later on. The question is whether a disqualified string will stay in limbo, or the applicant has to submit a new application when such a string becomes valid / allocatable after a RZ-LGR update<o:p></o:p></span></li><li style="color:black;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0in;mso-list:l1 level6 lfo9;vertical-align:baseline">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">The Vice Chair replied that “ If the RZ-LGR changes, then the output of the tool would also change, wouldn't it?”<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">A member replied, “I don't think that is our intention that an application would stay in limbo?”<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">A participant mentioned that his recollection is they do not anticipate ongoing monitoring / assistance being included. <o:p></o:p></span></li><li style="color:black;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0in;mso-list:l1 level6 lfo10;vertical-align:baseline">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Finally, there was discussion on the process and the potential for an irrational actor applying for a script that is not available. After thinking it over, there may be a need for the applicant to
state that they know the string is invalid and provide a reason they applied for it. <o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">4.1 <o:p></o:p></span>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Comments on this recommendation were discussed, including potential revisions to the wording in the parenthesis in the first half of the preliminary recommendation.<o:p></o:p></span>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">A comment in chat said “I don't think we lose the meaning of our recommendations if we remove the language in the brackets” <o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">A participant asked about the scope of the comparison in the last items. The String Similarity Review panel may find strings that are one or two characters to be confusingly similar to a two-character
ASCII string or its variant. The phrase in the bracket may be too limiting and may forbid the panel from identifying such confusingly similar cases. <o:p></o:p></span></li><li style="color:black;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0in;mso-list:l1 level4 lfo10;vertical-align:baseline">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">A member commented that outcomes of the String Similarity Review are the most important; the process of getting there may be up to the String Similarity Review Panel to decide . <o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">AOB (3 min)<o:p></o:p></span>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">The Chair Adjourned the meeting.<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Action Item:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> Leadership team to propose suggested edits to clarify Rec 3.24
and Rec 4.1 by taking into account public comment received. </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Dan Gluck
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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