[Gnso-epdp-legal] Request for Brief Dialogue with Bird & Bird

Wed Apr 1 17:31:39 UTC 2020

If the consensus here is that we don’t need to have the call, I’m ok to wait and read the responsive memo.

Candidly, I didn’t expect any opposition to the suggestion as I thought it would be a non-controversial way to further guide Bird & Bird on how best to help us. I’m surprised to see that’s not the case, but I’m often surprised 😊

For the record, I have no doubts as to B&B’s competence or ability to understand our issues. I just note that the more background we can provide, the more precisely they might be able to help.

Brian J. King
Director of Internet Policy and Industry Affairs

T +1 443 761 3726
markmonitor.com<http://www.markmonitor.com>

MarkMonitor
Protecting companies and consumers in a digital world

From: Alan Woods <alan at donuts.email>
Sent: Wednesday, April 1, 2020 12:08 PM
To: King, Brian <Brian.King at markmonitor.com>
Cc: Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net>; Becky Burr <becky.burr at board.icann.org>; gnso-epdp-legal at icann.org
Subject: Re: [Gnso-epdp-legal] Request for Brief Dialogue with Bird & Bird

 I am in complete agreement with Becky and Volker, and I must note that that the legal team went to great lengths to agree the questions as posed. The questions are agreed and I feel that additional 'clarification', however well meaning, are simply not appropriate at this juncture.

Additionally, Bird & Bird were chosen for their expertise in this field. B&B has been our primary counsel for over a year and are clearly very familiar with a) our work, b) icann's work and mandate, and surely c) the practical implementation of gdpr across a multitude of business types and models. If there are doubts as to their inability to understand the underlying issues here, surely this should have been raised much earlier than this.

Warm regards,

Alan

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On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 4:13 PM King, Brian via Gnso-epdp-legal <gnso-epdp-legal at icann.org<mailto:gnso-epdp-legal at icann.org>> wrote:
Thank you Becky and Volker for those helpful perspectives. I appreciate the need for transparency, and that there are likely differences of opinion within the legal team.

In “the real world” practice of law, the concept of not speaking with outside counsel about a question asked of them would be quite a bizarre scenario. Simply informing them of why we are asking the question could be of great value to how they think about the problem we need help in solving.

The first example that comes to mind is Section 1.12 of the memo on Automation, which appears to provide an elegantly simple way to ensure the processing is not automated and therefore not subject to Article 22. If Bird & Bird had a bit more information on what we were trying to accomplish, I can’t help but think they would have elaborated on this section and provided further guidance on how best to ensure the model we’re considering does not invoke Article 22 in the first place.

We cannot assume Bird & Bird has been following our work very closely, if at all, especially since the legal committee decided not to send them any sections of the Initial Report for their thoughts. I’ll understand if the legal committee thinks we have the time and resources remaining to engage in further written back-and-forth, but I submit that a 30- or 60-minute phone call would be far more efficient.

Brian J. King
Director of Internet Policy and Industry Affairs

T +1 443 761 3726
markmonitor.com<http://www.markmonitor.com>

MarkMonitor
Protecting companies and consumers in a digital world

From: Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>>
Sent: Wednesday, April 1, 2020 8:27 AM
To: Becky Burr <becky.burr at board.icann.org<mailto:becky.burr at board.icann.org>>
Cc: King, Brian <Brian.King at markmonitor.com<mailto:Brian.King at markmonitor.com>>; gnso-epdp-legal at icann.org<mailto:gnso-epdp-legal at icann.org>
Subject: Re: [Gnso-epdp-legal] Request for Brief Dialogue with Bird & Bird

I agree with Becky. Oral presentations may just lead to further differences of opinion.
--
Volker A. Greimann
General Counsel and Policy Manager
KEY-SYSTEMS GMBH

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On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 4:18 PM Becky Burr <becky.burr at board.icann.org<mailto:becky.burr at board.icann.org>> wrote:
Dear Brian,

Thanks for this suggestion.  Perhaps it would be preferable if we had Bird & Bird send any follow-up questions, comments, or requests for clarification to the EPDP Legal Committee in writing? Given our process, the questions should be able to stand on their own, and it may be easier to formulate answers to any follow-up questions in writing rather than on the fly. In addition, having dialogue in writing will promote transparency since the communications between the Legal Committee and Bird & Bird can be fully communicated to the rest of the team.

B

On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 11:23 AM King, Brian via Gnso-epdp-legal <gnso-epdp-legal at icann.org<mailto:gnso-epdp-legal at icann.org>> wrote:
Hi Team,

I wanted to propose that we schedule a brief call with Bird & Bird to discuss the question on automation we just sent.

While I was just an alternate in Phase 1 and was not able to attend, I understand from many EPDP colleagues across various groups that there was a lot of value from discussions with Ruth.

Since the answers to these automation questions will likely be of great importance to a high-priority topic (automation), and because at least the proximate cause issue may be a novel area of law, I think a dialogue would be useful to confirming Bird & Bird’s understanding of our intent behind these questions.

I look forward to your thoughts.

Thanks.

Brian J. King
Director of Internet Policy and Industry Affairs

T +1 443 761 3726
markmonitor.com<http://www.markmonitor.com>

MarkMonitor
Protecting companies and consumers in a digital world

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