[Gnso-epdp-team] EPDP Team mailing list page has incomplete list of subscribers

Mark Svancarek (CELA) marksv at microsoft.com
Thu Apr 4 12:19:32 UTC 2019

I’m sorry for weighing in so late on this topic.

Regardless whether we have access to the list of names, I suggest that when one receives direct email off list, that one reposts to the list (where its merits or flaws can be publicly discussed), with the appropriate admonition not to do it again.

(Over the last several months, UASG lists have been exposed to one or more pseudonymous trolls who attack certain officers and ambassadors by name, and criticize decisions made in accordance with our charter which they feel merit their input; when we ban them, he/they just create multiple new aliases.  Sometimes they email us directly, off list.
Our policy is to either ignore anything sent off list, or else repost it to the list, depending on individual discretion.)


From: Ayden Férdeline <icann at ferdeline.com>
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2019 9:16 AM
To: Amr Elsadr <aelsadr at icannpolicy.ninja>
Cc: Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca>; Mark Svancarek (CELA) <marksv at microsoft.com>; GNSO EPDP <gnso-epdp-team at icann.org>
Subject: Re: [Gnso-epdp-team] EPDP Team mailing list page has incomplete list of subscribers

Thanks, Amr.

That is correct, and the extent of my ask. For the avoidance of doubt, I am only asking that the list of the NAMES of Observers be complete. I do not need to see email addresses.

The only reason why I mentioned Mailman's subscriber list is because it is something of an audit function that would have allowed me to verify for myself who was subscribed to our list. As that functionality has been disabled, and it is not disabled on all other mailing lists, I and others are instead reliant on our wiki page being complete and accurate. That's all I'm after.

This is important, because recently someone who was subscribed to our list, but whose name does not appear on the wiki page, responded to an email I sent and tried to influence the discussion. In the interest of transparency, I think we all deserve to know who has subscribed to read the mailing list in real-time.

Best wishes,


‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On Monday, March 25, 2019 5:07 PM, Amr Elsadr <aelsadr at icannpolicy.ninja<mailto:aelsadr at icannpolicy.ninja>> wrote:


Whoever told you email addresses are personal information was correct. Kudos to whoever that was.

However, I did not read Ayden’s initial email to mean that he wishes that observer email addresses be published. He only asked that the list of NAMES of observers on the EPDP Team wiki be updated to include names that are currently missing.

Whether the names of observers need to be published, or not, is not the issue (although I’m not sure why it is so important that they are at all). However, if the standing practice is to publish them, the list might as well be complete.



On Mar 25, 2019, at 3:39 PM, Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca<mailto:alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca>> wrote:

Ayden, for which lists can you see the subscribers?

That used to be the default but to my knowledge that functionality was turned off on all lists several years ago. And I would guess that even if it had not happened then, it would have been done addressing GDPR. E-mail addresses, we are told, are personal information.

Sent from my mobile. Please excuse brevity and typos.

On March 25, 2019 9:57:42 PM GMT+09:00, "Ayden Férdeline" <icann at ferdeline.com<mailto:icann at ferdeline.com>> wrote:
Perhaps it is the default. However there are other ICANN org lists where I am able to view the entire subscriber list, if I too am subscribed, and I find this functionality and transparency to be very helpful.


‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On Monday, March 25, 2019 1:56 PM, Mark Svancarek (CELA) <marksv at microsoft.com<mailto:marksv at microsoft.com>> wrote:

Regarding the inability to see members list, UASG lists are also set up this way.  I assumed it was default.

From: Gnso-epdp-team <gnso-epdp-team-bounces at icann.org<mailto:gnso-epdp-team-bounces at icann.org>> On Behalf Of Nathalie Peregrine
Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2019 10:27
To: Ayden Férdeline <icann at ferdeline.com<mailto:icann at ferdeline.com>>; GNSO EPDP <gnso-epdp-team at icann.org<mailto:gnso-epdp-team at icann.org>>
Subject: Re: [Gnso-epdp-team] EPDP Team mailing list page has incomplete list of subscribers

Dear Ayden,

Thank you for raising this, staff will look into the matter and update you when adjustments have been made.

Kind regards,


From: Gnso-epdp-team <gnso-epdp-team-bounces at icann.org<mailto:gnso-epdp-team-bounces at icann.org>> on behalf of Ayden Férdeline <icann at ferdeline.com<mailto:icann at ferdeline.com>>
Reply-To: Ayden Férdeline <icann at ferdeline.com<mailto:icann at ferdeline.com>>
Date: Saturday, March 23, 2019 at 10:54 AM
To: GNSO EPDP <gnso-epdp-team at icann.org<mailto:gnso-epdp-team at icann.org>>
Subject: [Gnso-epdp-team] EPDP Team mailing list page has incomplete list of subscribers

Hi all,

I believe the EPDP mailing list page<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcommunity.icann.org%2Fpages%2Fviewpage.action%3FpageId%3D88574688&data=02%7C01%7Cmarksv%40microsoft.com%7Cabb128c2d9834f3fe86908d6b13d3fb2%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636891273957969956&sdata=q%2Bd1f6jR8Ep7zjjjNggE6ao3YPbC4AEt4gJR%2BL26z9s%3D&reserved=0>, which includes the names of observers, is incomplete. I note this because a recent email I sent to our list received a response directly from someone whose name is not listed on this webpage. I am unable to view the subscribers list, because unusually, this functionality has been disabled<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmm.icann.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fgnso-epdp-team&data=02%7C01%7Cmarksv%40microsoft.com%7Cabb128c2d9834f3fe86908d6b13d3fb2%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636891273957979945&sdata=HgQav3PtkYe2l6EyKWyfyLw1GQf6X%2BryIoOKbLlBgLY%3D&reserved=0> in Mailman. We work in the open and our mailing list discussions should, of course, be accessible to everyone. But we should also be clear about whose inboxes are correspondence will be reaching. I'd like to request that we please update the EPDP mailing list page to include the names of all observers.

Many thanks,

Ayden Férdeline

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