[Gnso-epdp-team] Notes and action items from EPDP Meeting #41 - 23 Jan 2020
karklinsj at gmail.com
Fri Jan 24 07:10:42 UTC 2020
Thank you, Caitlin, for listing homework items.
I would like to reiterate, that it would be very useful if Team members
could suggest what functions the suggested "body/entity" (committee,
unit...) could perform ensuring thoughtful evolution of the model from
fully decentralized disclosure decision making (hybrid model) to more
automated disclosure decision making (centralized model). Should this
"body/entity" be supervised and by whom?
Thank you and safe travels
On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 1:04 AM Caitlin Tubergen <caitlin.tubergen at icann.org>
> Dear EPDP Team,
> Please find below the notes and action items from today’s EPDP Team
> For all those attending: safe travels to the F2F meeting, and see you soon!
> Best regards,
> Marika, Berry, and Caitlin
> *Action Items*
> 1. EPDP Support Staff to send Legal Q2, which has been approved by the
> plenary team, to B&B for its review.
> 2. EPDP Team to review the GAC proposal on accreditation of public
> authorities in advance of the F2F meeting.
> 3. EPDP Leadership and Support Staff to consider today's discussion and
> prepare an agenda for the F2F meeting to be distributed on Sunday, 26
> 4. EPDP Team to submit additional feedback on today's discussion and the
> EPDP Leadership-proposed chameleon model by 14:00 UTC on Sunday, 26 January.
> *EPDP Phase 2 - Meeting #41*
> *Proposed Agenda*
> Thursday, 23 January 2020 at 14.00 UTC
> 1. Roll Call & SOI Updates (5 minutes)
> 2. Confirmation of agenda (Chair)
> 3. Welcome and housekeeping issues (Chair) (5
> a) Update from the legal committee
> - Following this call, a document which includes the rationale for
> posing each question will be provided. Regarding Reverse Look-ups, the
> legal committee thought the question was still relevant as the question for
> reverse look-ups as there was a proposal to prohibit reverse look-ups.
> - The path forward for this – Thomas raised a point of
> order whether this is in scope, and it is the Chair’s authority to rule on
> that. Alternatively, the Team could remove the bracketed language.
> - Legal Committee recommends the legal questions should be
> sent out.
> - Re: legal vs. natural questions, NCSG noted the
> outstanding policy question should be answered before legal questions are
> pursued. The LC believes that in order for ICANN to carry out the
> feasibility exercise, the questions would be helpful to inform this
> exercise. The LC is seeking clarification of the existing legal advice.
> - Territorial scope – B&B provided legal guidance on the
> territorial scope of GDPR and the advice and updated EPDB guidance could be
> relevant here. The LC believes given the Board’s note re: geographic
> differentiation, the implications of the two events would be helpful.
> - WHOIS accuracy – follow-up clarification questions on
> B&B’s previous advice re: relevant parties – who may be included in this
> with respect to GDPR roles. LC also agreed it would be helpful to have
> practical guidance with respect to this.
> - Re: reverse look-ups, there is no agreement on this
> particular topic, so it would be wise to indicate that on that particular
> topic, there is no agreement within the Team, so the Team is seeking
> community feedback on this point.
> - Regarding reverse look-ups, the Initial Report or Final
> Report should remove all references to reverse look-ups. If the Team
> believes this should be dealt with at some point, it could flag it for a
> future PDP.
> - Question utility on putting reverse look-ups out for
> public comment – agree that this is out of scope, so the Team is not
> endorsing or prohibiting it
> - May be foolish to NOT get legal advice on this now
> - Disagree that just b/c B&B is available means the Team
> should ask advice
> - There is no objection to Q2. There is no consensus re:
> reverse look-ups. Therefore, the Team will not send the question regarding
> reverse look-ups.
> - Object to territorial scope and the legal vs. natural
> - Agreement to send Q2. The other questions need further
> discussion with the Legal Committee.
> - Accuracy question – NCSG reads this as accuracy is a
> right of the data subject
> - Action: EPDP Support Staff to send Q2 to B&B for its
> b) ICANN follow up on Belgian DPA response to
> Strawberry letter – see questions suggested by Marc Anderson:
> · Is ICANN expecting an additional communication on the Strawberry
> · Would ICANN org like feedback from the EPDP Team before it meets
> with the Belgian DPA?
> - The EC has been helping ICANN facilitate a meeting with the Belgian
> DPA – was hoping to have this meeting before the F2F, but this has not
> - EC believes it would be useful to have a meeting with
> the Belgian DPA
> - There is no set date yet for this meeting, but trying to
> set meeting as early as possible in February
> - Synopsis: work is ongoing, and there is no update yet,
> but hoping for an update in the near future
> 4. Introduction of Proposal for an SSAD Hybrid able to evolve to a
> Centralized and Automated Model (“The Chameleon”)
> a) Staff overview
> - Attempt from Leadership and Staff to review the CPH proposal and
> reactions to it and the small team’s input and come forward with a proposal
> - Attempt to add flexibility and meaningful SLAs
> - Took the recommendations in the draft Initial Report and
> adding additional specificity
> - The basics of the model – the requestor submits a
> disclosure request to the central gateway (performed or overseen by ICANN
> org) – the central gateway would determine if the request meets the
> criteria for an automated response or if it needs to go to the CP for review
> - There is an assumption that at the outset bucket 4 would
> be substantially larger than what is in bucket 5, but through experience
> gained or additional legal guidance, more requests may shift to bucket 5
> - Another new concept introduced in the hybrid-hybrid
> model is the steering committee – the underlying idea is should there be a
> mechanism that allows for the evolution over time without requiring a new
> PDP each time– maybe there is not, but this is an initial proposal for
> - This is similar to the CSC to IANA-PTI to follow SLAs
> and the performance of PTI and enhance these over time – this is more used
> as a concept – is this necessary or is there a way that the evolutionary
> model could be captured?
> - Went through preliminary recommendations in the latest
> version of the Initial Report – the comments raised have been removed for
> ease of reading, but those comments will be dealt with via the issues list
> - There are now two preliminary recommendations about
> automated disclosure requests to accommodate the two branches in the
> previous diagram
> - SLAs have been included – is there a way to help predict
> what will come in
> - Some of the other changes deal with who would be dealing
> with what
> - In reference to the steering committee, this is an
> initial proposal – this is not intended to circumvent policy rules – it is
> trying to find a compromise solution from the various proposals.
> b) EPDP Team reactions
> - Having a roadmap around how to allow future automation will be
> helpful. Maybe a function or a group can evolve this as more legal
> certainty is gained.
> - Strongly support the model – getting something close to
> what the different group could support. The document references shifting
> liability – we should not be talking about shifting liability. Strongly
> support the work of standing committee, but it should not be making policy
> decisions. There should not be a jointly-appointed rep for NCSG/ALAC.
> - Under current model, the only way to create contractual
> obligations on CPs is through a PDP. This group would not be wading into
> policy waters, only on implementation automation – this group cannot
> self-determine what is a policy question – that needs to go somewhere else
> like the GNSO Council. Looking at the broader view from groups are critical
> of the ICANN model, this seems to show that the PDP is not fit for purpose.
> This is the wrong approach – the right approach would be to fix the PDP. If
> the proposal is for a group outside of the PDP that could impact the
> contract, that is too big of a loophole/wildcard/variable for contracted
> parties to accept. Critics of the MSM will pounce on this as evidence that
> the MSM is not working.
> - Standing PDP could be an alternative to a standing
> - Do not support an external group that is designed to
> exclude non-commercial users from decision-making. The CSC is not an
> appropriate precedent. Question the need for evolution – the EPDP Team can
> come up with an automated model for certain disclosures – there can be
> evolution of procedures and technologies, and there can be oversight of
> that through the GNSO Council.
> - Would need a Privacy Impact Committee to assess the
> impact of this
> - New draft is closer to what can be published for initial
> comment – there are problematic elements but can discuss these at the F2F
> - Need to call out automation where legally permissible
> and technically feasible.
> - There could be standing IRT-like group to assist in the
> - Modeling a steering committee after the CSC is very good
> – the membership will be different b/c the customers and functions are very
> - Will the committee have the responsibility where the
> decision making for the disclosure request can be done through automated
> - Have to discuss the safest way to get legal certainty is
> to get this approved as a code of conduct under the GDPR
> - Action: EPDP Team to review the GAC proposal on
> accreditation of public authorities
> - Action: Leadership and Staff will consider today’s
> discussion and prepare the F2F meeting in the best possible way
> - Action: EPDP Team can prepare additional feedback to
> assist Leadership in developing next week’s F2F agenda
> c) Confirm next steps
> 5. Plans for F2F meeting in Los Angeles
> a) Leadership Priorities
> b) EPDP Team input
> c) Confirmation of expected homework / preparations
> by EPDP Team for the LA F2F meeting
> d) Confirm next steps
> 6. Continue review of issues list (those items
> not dependent on item #4), if time allows
> a) See highlighted items on the issue list
> b) EPDP Team input
> c) Confirm next steps
> 7. Wrap and confirm next EPDP Team meeting (5
> a) Monday 27 January 2020 at 9.00 local time at the
> ICANN office
> b) Confirm action items
> c) Confirm questions for ICANN Org, if any
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