[Gnso-epdp-team] [EXTERNAL] Re: On the proposed guidance

Thu Apr 22 14:50:41 UTC 2021

Why are they flawed? They work.
And they do constitute publication in other areas.

-- 
Volker A. Greimann
General Counsel and Policy Manager
*KEY-SYSTEMS GMBH*

T: +49 6894 9396901
M: +49 6894 9396851
F: +49 6894 9396851
W: www.key-systems.net

Key-Systems GmbH is a company registered at the local court of
Saarbruecken, Germany with the registration no. HR B 18835
CEO: Oliver Fries and Robert Birkner

Part of the CentralNic Group PLC (LON: CNIC) a company registered in
England and Wales with company number 8576358.

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On Thu, Apr 22, 2021 at 4:43 PM Mark Svancarek (CELA) <marksv at microsoft.com>
wrote:

> Analogies of trade registries (or real property registries, a better
> example IMO) are flawed unless the data is available instantly and
> completely.
>
>
>
> So far the proposals seem to propose that only some unpredictable fraction
> of the data will be instantly available, with the rest subject to multi-day
> manual inspection.  I doubt that will meet the standard of “publication”.
>
>
>
> *From:* Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net>
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 22, 2021 7:31 AM
> *To:* Mark Svancarek (CELA) <marksv at microsoft.com>
> *Cc:* King, Brian <Brian.King at markmonitor.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Gnso-epdp-team] On the proposed guidance
>
>
>
> My proposal includes the provision that data that is confirmed not to
> contain personal information would be automatically disclosed to requestors.
>
> I am essentially proposing to lowering the barriers of access and the
> costs associated with this specific (and potentially other) automatic
> disclosure category.
>
>
>
> Basically framing the "Lowest" category as a functionality of SSAD,
> broadening SSAD availability and conceding this data would be available for
> automated disclosure.
>
> How can you not love that?
>
>
>
> --
> Volker A. Greimann
> General Counsel and Policy Manager
> *KEY-SYSTEMS GMBH*
>
> T: +49 6894 9396901
> M: +49 6894 9396851
> F: +49 6894 9396851
> W: www.key-systems.net
> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.key-systems.net%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cmarksv%40microsoft.com%7C7bcdb50cec814c2e280c08d9059b3a9a%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637546986533218346%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=MDwm8M7mfwhB00tRoHKhciOgSLoKoIenOWjtq2Y0sro%3D&reserved=0>
>
> Key-Systems GmbH is a company registered at the local court of
> Saarbruecken, Germany with the registration no. HR B 18835
> CEO: Oliver Fries and Robert Birkner
>
> Part of the CentralNic Group PLC (LON: CNIC) a company registered in
> England and Wales with company number 8576358.
>
> This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended only
> for the person(s) directly addressed. If you are not the intended
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> dissemination is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in
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> email with any files that may be attached.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 22, 2021 at 4:07 PM Mark Svancarek (CELA) <
> marksv at microsoft.com> wrote:
>
> The trade register provides guaranteed instant access to all data.  I
> haven’t seen a proposal so far which would ensure that all legal persona
> data would be available for automated access.
>
>
>
> *From:* Gnso-epdp-team <gnso-epdp-team-bounces at icann.org> *On Behalf Of *Volker
> Greimann via Gnso-epdp-team
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 22, 2021 6:58 AM
> *To:* King, Brian <Brian.King at markmonitor.com>
> *Cc:* gnso-epdp-team at icann.org
> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [Gnso-epdp-team] On the proposed guidance
>
>
>
> That is but one opinion, Brian. As I have already outlined previously,
> common practice all over Europe disagrees with her. Data can be public even
> if they are behind a wall. No sane person in Germany would argue that the
> trade register is not public. And what is the implementation of the online
> access functionality of the German trade register but a light version of
> SSAD - exactly what I am proposing.
>
>
>
> You have the opportunity for a win here. Let's not waste it.
>
>
>
> --
> Volker A. Greimann
> General Counsel and Policy Manager
> *KEY-SYSTEMS GMBH*
>
> T: +49 6894 9396901
> M: +49 6894 9396851
> F: +49 6894 9396851
> W: www.key-systems.net
> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.key-systems.net%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cmarksv%40microsoft.com%7C7bcdb50cec814c2e280c08d9059b3a9a%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637546986533228302%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=PX18InY%2Fl2Rj%2Fig31K6RkZjSe0BN9xOehX7bxHhfAvQ%3D&reserved=0>
>
> Key-Systems GmbH is a company registered at the local court of
> Saarbruecken, Germany with the registration no. HR B 18835
> CEO: Oliver Fries and Robert Birkner
>
> Part of the CentralNic Group PLC (LON: CNIC) a company registered in
> England and Wales with company number 8576358.
>
> This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended only
> for the person(s) directly addressed. If you are not the intended
> recipient, any use, copying, transmission, distribution, or other forms of
> dissemination is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in
> error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete this
> email with any files that may be attached.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 22, 2021 at 3:48 PM King, Brian via Gnso-epdp-team <
> gnso-epdp-team at icann.org> wrote:
>
> Hi Alan,
>
>
>
> Sure thing. Melina (who wrote the NIS 2 Directive) clarified that point in
> her email on Tuesday. I’ve attached it here in hopes that the email list
> server doesn’t eat it.
>
>
>
> *Brian King*
>
> He/Him/His
> Head of Policy and Advocacy
>
> 
>
> T +1 443 761 3726
>
> Time zone: US Eastern
>
>
>
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>
> *From:* Alan Woods <alan at donuts.email>
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 22, 2021 9:29 AM
> *To:* King, Brian <Brian.King at markmonitor.com>
> *Cc:* Thomas Rickert <epdp at gdpr.ninja>; gnso-epdp-team at icann.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Gnso-epdp-team] On the proposed guidance
>
>
>
> Hi Brian,
>
>
>
> You have noted this European Commission advice twice now. both here and in
> the homework document comments. I need not say that our statements in this
> process have very large importance to the progression of this process, and
> I can but urge caution in categorical statements. If you can provide us
> with a copy of or a link to legal advice described, as formally issued by
> the Commission, regarding the implementation of the draft proposed
> directive (not to mention individual member state implementation) and how
> that applies to the SSAD, or more to the point why current proposed method
> does not meet 'publication requirements', then I think we would all be very
> interested in reviewing that.
>
>
>
> If not, I think we should continue to consider the path forward here that
> has been proposed.
>
>
>
> Thank you.
>
>
>
>
> [image: Donuts Inc.]
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>
>
> * Alan Woods*
>
> Senior Manager, Compliance & Policy, Donuts Inc.
> ------------------------------
>
> Donuts
>
> Ground Floor
>
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>
> Ship Street Great
>
> Dublin 8
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>
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>
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>
>
> On Thu, Apr 22, 2021 at 2:15 PM King, Brian via Gnso-epdp-team <
> gnso-epdp-team at icann.org> wrote:
>
> I like it too (which is why I proposed it in Phase 2).
>
>
>
> However, what we developed in Phase 2 is clearly not acceptable to most
> groups, plus, we may never have an SSAD. Historically we’ve been let down
> by ICANN’s inability or unwillingness to implement policies like PPSAI
> which actually have consensus (unlike SSAD) and which have progressed to
> implementation, so I don’t see the IPC agreeing to the dubious proposition
> of SSAD as the solution here.
>
>
>
> Furthermore, the European Commission has already advised that mere
> availability of legal entity data in SSAD will not meet the publication
> requirements in NIS2. So let’s stay focused.
>
>
>
> *Brian J. King*
> Head of Policy and Advocacy, Intellectual Property Group
>
>
> T +1 443 761 3726
>
> *clarivate.com
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> 
>
>
>
> On Apr 22, 2021, at 8:18 AM, Thomas Rickert via Gnso-epdp-team <
> gnso-epdp-team at icann.org> wrote:
>
>  Let me go on the record that I also like the idea.
>
>
>
> I addition to the points mentioned by others, making it a one-stop-shop
> for all data would make it more user friendly, add safeguards against
> undesirable correlation of data and allows for kicking-out bad actors even
> at that level.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Thomas
>
>
>
> Am 20.04.2021 um 23:49 schrieb Volker Greimann via Gnso-epdp-team <
> gnso-epdp-team at icann.org>:
>
>
>
> Hi Milton,
>
>
>
> essentially, yes, although it would be non-personal data.
>
>
>
> And it takes care of a huge chunk of DNS abuse (the abuse originating from
> the RDS harvesters, that is).
>
> --
> Volker A. Greimann
> General Counsel and Policy Manager
> *KEY-SYSTEMS GMBH*
>
> T: +49 6894 9396901
> M: +49 6894 9396851
> F: +49 6894 9396851
> W: www.key-systems.net
> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.proofpoint.com%2Fv2%2Furl%3Fu%3Dhttp-3A__www.key-2Dsystems.net_%26d%3DDwMFaQ%26c%3DOGmtg_3SI10Cogwk-ShFiw%26r%3DqQNCXqU_XE2XIdXbawYmk-YDflYH6pd8ffXlzxU37OA%26m%3DX6pN0o-2i1MmkNU25SuEeN8oV8d98i2CNKj3g-jjirE%26s%3DK7tLs1J7TcFvBLJUXYLBeicrxT4Hve5SygGGTY4GwHU%26e%3D&data=04%7C01%7Cmarksv%40microsoft.com%7C7bcdb50cec814c2e280c08d9059b3a9a%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637546986533278083%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=6cC17jHWO%2B3FqNESPaLE3xXoZAfmj8zWy2P4hVthV1U%3D&reserved=0>
>
> Key-Systems GmbH is a company registered at the local court of
> Saarbruecken, Germany with the registration no. HR B 18835
> CEO: Oliver Fries and Robert Birkner
>
> Part of the CentralNic Group PLC (LON: CNIC) a company registered in
> England and Wales with company number 8576358.
>
> This email and any files transmitted are confidential and intended only
> for the person(s) directly addressed. If you are not the intended
> recipient, any use, copying, transmission, distribution, or other forms of
> dissemination is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in
> error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete this
> email with any files that may be attached.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 20, 2021 at 8:47 PM Mueller, Milton L via Gnso-epdp-team <
> gnso-epdp-team at icann.org> wrote:
>
> > Obviously I can’t speak for Volker, but I want to try and respond with
> why I find Volker’s
>
> > proposal intriguing.
>
>
>
> I too am intrigued by this suggestion. Volker as I understand it proposed
> that instead of publishing the data as we used to do with “ye olde Whois”
> (love that term), we would make the data of those who flag themselves as
> legal persons available automatically to any registered SSAD user who
> requests it. Other requests would be available based on the review for
> legitimate purpose as originally envisioned.
>
>
>
> As Marc suggests, going through SSAD eliminates a lot of abusers/bad
> actors or at least gives us some recourse against them, but still gives all
> the legitimate users easy access to data that does not need to be private.
> I would hope this option would be acceptable to the stakeholders who are
> arguing for a legal/natural distinction.
>
>
>
> Dr. Milton L Mueller
>
> Georgia Institute of Technology
>
> School of Public Policy
>
>
>
>
>
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