<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">All,</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Jeff has proposed the following:</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 40px;border:none;padding:0px"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><p style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:11pt">In other words, it would not be for ICANN to determine what is “anti-competitive”, but rather such determinations would be made by courts of national jurisdiction. If they found a violation of law, then ICANN would have to ensure the registry takes remedial actions. ICANN Compliance should never be in the position of having to determine whether an action is ”anti-competitive” in any jurisdiction.</span></p></div></blockquote><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><p style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14.6667px">Philippe wrote something similar:</span></p></div><blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 40px;border:none;padding:0px"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US">As I observed during our last call, I think asking the applicant “to commit” is the right thing to do, and I don’t think this can call for more than ticking a box or a “Yes we commit.” sort of response: I don’t expect a panel/committee or even compliance to be in a position to determine whether a particular behaviour is anticompetitive or not, as authority on the matter lies with national/regional competition authorities/agencies.</span></p></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><span lang="EN-US">I’m not saying that a closed generics may not lead to an anticompetitive behaviour (I don’t know) but from a practical standpoint, I can only expect “ICANN” to rely on those authorities to decide/rule on whether that is the case, and act accordingly in the event, based on the fact that the applicant didn’t live up to their “commitment”.</span></p></div></blockquote><div class="gmail_default" style=""><p style=""><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14.6667px">This runs counter to the concept of enforceability and to the reality of how contracts are enforced. It is utterly common for contracts to contain provisions that obligate a party to comply with (and/or not to violate) specified laws, and more generally to comply with applicable law. In my experience and observation, a contracting party will just about always determine for itself (through the advice of appropriate counsel) whether the other party is breaching one of these provisions and will take appropriate action (notice of breach, possible suspension or termination for cause, notice and demand for "cure"/remediation, etc. -- including "softer" or more nuanced approaches). If the parties cannot resolve the issue between themselves, they may end up in court, but that is only a small percentage of the time. Even then, it is much more common for the parties to settle rather than litigate to a verdict. </span></font></p><p style=""><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14.6667px">The only times I have observed a party wait until there's a court verdict or regulatory finding is when the contract provision specifically and expressly states that that is the threshold for breach.</span></font></p><p style=""><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14.6667px">To state the obvious, courts (in most jurisdictions) cannot initiate a case on their own initiative -- there must be a plaintiff (either a private party (in civil litigation) or the state (which can be civil or criminal)) who initiates the case (by filing a complaint or other similar action).</span></font></p><p style=""><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14.6667px">These proposals would utterly tie the hands of ICANN in contract compliance and enforcement. ICANN, like any other party to a contract, must be free to determine for itself when a contract is being breached and to take appropriate action. It would be far too extreme to require ICANN to go straight to a lawsuit when it believes that a contractual obligation to comply with laws is being violated. It would be even more extreme to prohibit ICANN from taking any action and require it to wait for a third party to bring a case or a government to bring a case or initiate an investigation and secure a verdict or make a regulatory determination before ICANN can take appropriate action. That would take us massively backward on concepts of contractual compliance and enforcement that have gradually improved over time.</span></font></p><p style=""><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14.6667px">Of course, there could be times when cases are brought and verdicts are secured that find behavior that violates contracts with ICANN, and ICANN will of course be able to react and take appropriate enforcement action regarding contracts. But those times frankly are edge cases. That cannot be our standard for any type of contractual commitment, including (but not limited to), commitments relating to closed generics.</span></font></p><p style=""><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14.6667px">Best regards, </span></font></p><p style=""><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14.6667px">Greg</span></font></p><p style=""><br></p><p style=""><br></p></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Apr 18, 2023 at 4:37 PM <<a href="mailto:philippe.fouquart@orange.com" target="_blank">philippe.fouquart@orange.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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<div dir="auto">
<div>Thanks John. Your suggestion works for me too for the reasons given in my previous post.
<div dir="auto">Best,</div>
<div dir="auto">Philippe </div>
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<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">Le 18 avr. 2023 22:04, John McElwaine <<a href="mailto:john.mcelwaine@nelsonmullins.com" target="_blank">john.mcelwaine@nelsonmullins.com</a>> a écrit :<br type="attribution">
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<p><span style="font-size:11pt">Jeff,</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt">That was my intent.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt">John</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span></p>
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<p><b><span style="font-size:11pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt"> Jeff Neuman <<a href="mailto:jeff@jjnsolutions.com" target="_blank">jeff@jjnsolutions.com</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, April 18, 2023 4:02 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> John McElwaine <<a href="mailto:john.mcelwaine@nelsonmullins.com" target="_blank">john.mcelwaine@nelsonmullins.com</a>>; Melissa Peters Allgood <<a href="mailto:melissa.allgood@icann.org" target="_blank">melissa.allgood@icann.org</a>>; <a href="mailto:gnso-gac-closed-generics@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-gac-closed-generics@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [gnso-gac-closed-generics] Closed Generics Updates - 14 April 2023</span></p>
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<p> </p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt">Thanks John. I can live with your number 2 <u>If</u> all of those acts are predicated in violation of national laws.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt">In other words, if I were to rewrite your #2 as I am ok with it being interpreted, it would be:</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span></p>
<p style="margin-left:0.5in"><span style="font-size:11pt">. For “non anti-competitive behaviour”, applicants must commit that its use of this closed generic gTLD will not be used to violate
<span style="color:red">applicable</span> national laws prohibiting unfair methods of competition.
<span style="color:red">This includes, but is not limited to<s>, , such as </s></span>collusion, restraints of trade that prohibit third parties from supplying or offering to supply goods or services, or otherwise monopolistically controlling, limiting, or
restricting the supply of goods or services.</span></p>
<p style="margin-left:0.5in"><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt">In other words, it would not be for ICANN to determine what is “anti-competitive”, but rather such determinations would be made by courts of national jurisdiction. If they found a violation of law, then ICANN would have to ensure
the registry takes remedial actions. ICANN Compliance should never be in the position of having to determine whether an action is ”anti-competitive” in any jurisdiction.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt">Hopefully this is what you meant John. If so, I can support. If not, it is a red line for me to have ICANN compliance act as a substitute for regulator of national laws.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt">Sincerely,</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt">Jeff</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span></p>
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<p style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:black;border:1pt none;padding:0in"><img style="width: 1.85in; height: 0.8416in;" height="81" width="178"></span><span style="font-size:11pt"></span></p>
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<p style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(6,23,95)">Jeffrey J. Neuman</span><span style="font-family:"times new roman",serif"></span></p>
<p style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:black">Founder & CEO
</span><span style="font-family:"times new roman",serif"></span></p>
<p style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(6,23,95)">JJN Solutions, LLC</span><span style="font-family:"times new roman",serif"></span></p>
<p style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:black">p: +1.202.549.5079</span><span style="font-family:"times new roman",serif"></span></p>
<p style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:black">E:
</span><span style="font-family:"times new roman",serif"><a href="mailto:jeff@jjnsolutions.com" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(17,85,204)">jeff@jjnsolutions.com</span></a></span></p>
<p style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:black"><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__jjnsolutions.com&d=DwMGaQ&c=qmi9WrYRGQEDDOxOwKrAjW7mWovpzN_EKyRbeK_zbP0&r=Kepk-9GEB6JgOj0vUGl8c0hdrRM7FW-8Is-VAQU1VAm5U0rBXiZs3BfB3GfKU2uR&m=MeoIhLexdpwao9NQLMENEawFWz_0kTVclFlB0Xk_SAtHPNGbTYinOoLoeRir7-ho&s=ez0rB5lxV3bl0kZ1GOvz_DjYm-vAme9Rusom0REQMCk&e=" target="_blank"><span style="color:blue">http://jjnsolutions.com</span></a></span><span style="font-family:"times new roman",serif"></span></p>
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<p><b><span style="font-size:11pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt"> gnso-gac-closed-generics <<a href="mailto:gnso-gac-closed-generics-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-gac-closed-generics-bounces@icann.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>John McElwaine<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, April 18, 2023 11:59 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Melissa Peters Allgood <<a href="mailto:melissa.allgood@icann.org" target="_blank">melissa.allgood@icann.org</a>>;
<a href="mailto:gnso-gac-closed-generics@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-gac-closed-generics@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [gnso-gac-closed-generics] Closed Generics Updates - 14 April 2023</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p> </p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt">With respect “representativeness”, I must respectfully state that the following is a redline for me:</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span></p>
<ol start="1" type="1" style="margin-top:0in">
<li style="margin-left:0.25in"><i><span style="font-size:11pt">For “representativeness”, applicants must demonstrate that the applicant represents all or a significant part of the businesses (or has their agreement) in the industry or grouping related to the
closed generic term.</span></i><span style="font-size:11pt"></span></li></ol>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt">The revisions would <u>only</u> allow for a closed generic applicant that was an international trade association of businesses. This is far afield from what we have discussed and would fall into the category of an impermissible
Policy determination.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt">I agree with the concept of “Non Anti-Competitiveness” as a part of the Framework process as a part of the delegation section, which is Section IV. However, we are discussing this mostly in a double-negative way. Moreover,
this is an area of law that I fear we are trying to define and which is outside of our knowledge. I prefer something like Proposed Alternative #1, which I would suggest is revised as follows:</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span></p>
<p style="margin-left:0.5in"><span style="font-size:11pt">2. For “non anti-competitive behaviour”, applicants must commit that its use of this closed generic gTLD will not be used to violate national laws prohibiting unfair methods of competition,
such as collusion, restraints of trade that prohibit third parties from supplying or offering to supply goods or services, or otherwise monopolistically controlling, limiting, or restricting the supply of goods or services</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt">Thanks,</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt">John</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span></p>
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<p><b><span style="font-size:11pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt"> gnso-gac-closed-generics <<a href="mailto:gnso-gac-closed-generics-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-gac-closed-generics-bounces@icann.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Melissa Peters Allgood<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, April 14, 2023 2:34 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:gnso-gac-closed-generics@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-gac-closed-generics@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [gnso-gac-closed-generics] Closed Generics Updates - 14 April 2023</span></p>
</div>
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<p> </p>
<div>
<p><strong><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:red">◄External Email►</span></strong><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:black"> - From:
<a href="mailto:gnso-gac-closed-generics-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-gac-closed-generics-bounces@icann.org</a>
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<p><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<p><span style="color:black">Hi all – </span></p>
<p><span style="color:black"> </span></p>
<p><span style="color:black">I want to share a bit of the work that staff has done to support your efforts and provide more detail about the approach to our upcoming calls.
</span></p>
<p><span style="color:black"> </span></p>
<p><b><span style="color:black"><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__docs.google.com_document_d_1wtLVcyWhyrCaYl1iqlAncaIyrqpS-2D-2D0aPCTjpwMue7I_edit&d=DwMGaQ&c=qmi9WrYRGQEDDOxOwKrAjW7mWovpzN_EKyRbeK_zbP0&r=Kepk-9GEB6JgOj0vUGl8c0hdrRM7FW-8Is-VAQU1VAm5U0rBXiZs3BfB3GfKU2uR&m=ODO8endu2yFS9Q7WIZvDyDo1jWyvQo0fVRf64r8ZyBJHmS1kTm2DEU42C8rV4FGM&s=n6Zv8I5X6-mQu2qIZs8CpuYTk5kqq3ZsvNMfiqiSDUM&e=" target="_blank">Discussion
Draft v2.1</a></span></b></p>
<p><span style="color:black">We will continue to work our way through all your inputs into this document. It has been cleaned up slightly, hence the v2.1, but nothing of substance has been altered. We will move through this document in the following manner:</span></p>
<ul type="disc" style="margin-top:0in">
<li style="color:black;margin-left:0in">Section III. Applying for a Closed Generic gTLD</li><li style="color:black;margin-left:0in">Section IV. Evaluating a Closed Generic gTLD Application</li><li style="color:black;margin-left:0in">Section V. Contracting & Post-Delegation Review</li><li style="color:black;margin-left:0in">Definitions</li><li style="color:black;margin-left:0in">Policy questions and possible implementation questions based on group discussions to date
<ul type="circle" style="margin-top:0in">
<li style="color:black;margin-left:0in">I don’t anticipate getting into the substance of these and will simply ask if the areas detailed properly encapsulate other conversations had by this group</li></ul>
</li></ul>
<p><span style="color:black"> </span></p>
<p><span style="color:black">In comments, staff have identified possible areas of duplication in upcoming points under discussion. When such areas arise, I will ask for the temperature of the room on the duplication issue before possibly moving onto the substance
of the framework element. </span></p>
<p><span style="color:black"> </span></p>
<p><b><span style="color:black"><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__docs.google.com_document_d_1u0Nb9-5FCJ-2D6R-5FZF4bt9wbkzxLhMKu64aKY-5FvzS3QixgQ_edit&d=DwMGaQ&c=qmi9WrYRGQEDDOxOwKrAjW7mWovpzN_EKyRbeK_zbP0&r=Kepk-9GEB6JgOj0vUGl8c0hdrRM7FW-8Is-VAQU1VAm5U0rBXiZs3BfB3GfKU2uR&m=ODO8endu2yFS9Q7WIZvDyDo1jWyvQo0fVRf64r8ZyBJHmS1kTm2DEU42C8rV4FGM&s=k27Asp9yNGvBNSgyJY2Pi8f1F7M5gBtFQCRbjkgfgm0&e=" target="_blank">Closed
Generics Framework v3</a></span></b></p>
<p><span style="color:black">This is a clean copy of framework elements from Discussion Draft v2.1 where the group has demonstrated broad agreement. This document will continue to evolve as you work through the remaining sections of Discussion Draft v2.1.
<b><i>Please keep this document clean</i></b>. We will consider this document as a whole after we complete the remaining work found in Discussion Draft v2.1.
</span></p>
<p><span style="color:black"> </span></p>
<p><b><u><span style="color:black">Proposed Edits to Representativeness or Non Anti-Competitiveness</span></u></b></p>
<p><span style="color:black">Sophie has shared proposed edits to this element on the mailing list. Please respond on the mailing list if:</span></p>
<ol start="1" type="1" style="margin-top:0in">
<li style="color:black;margin-left:0in">You disagree <u>and</u> this a red line for you</li><li style="color:black;margin-left:0in">You wish to state a preference between the options presented</li></ol>
<p><span style="color:black">Staff will incorporate your feedback on this element into Discussion Draft v2.1.
</span></p>
<p><span style="color:black"> </span></p>
<p><b><u><span style="color:black">Upcoming Discussions</span></u></b></p>
<p><span style="color:black">As we continue to work through Discussion Draft v2.1, I’d remind you that this is
<u>not </u>the time to rehash previous positions. We all understand that many elements under discussion may not be the preference of a given individual while also not rising to the level of personal red line. Accordingly,
<b><i>I ask you limit interventions to clarifying questions and/or indications that the text under discussion is a personal red line.</i></b>
</span></p>
<p><span style="color:black"> </span></p>
<p><span style="color:black">Finally, at this point in the work I ask you focus your energy on the spirit and intention of each framework element under discussion rather than details of the text. I recognize this is far easier said than done, but I ask we all
try. </span></p>
<p><span style="color:black"> </span></p>
<p><span style="color:black">As always, my sincere thanks for your continued hard work. We are getting there!</span></p>
<p><span style="color:black"> </span></p>
<p><span style="color:black">Wishing you all a lovely weekend, </span></p>
<p><span style="color:black">Melissa</span></p>
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By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (<a href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy</a>) and the website Terms of Service (<a href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos</a>). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div><span>-- </span><br><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><font face="BlinkMacSystemFont, -apple-system, Segoe UI, Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#0b5394"><b>Greg Shatan</b></font><div><font face="BlinkMacSystemFont, -apple-system, Segoe UI, Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" color="#0b5394"><b>Chair, NARALO</b></font></div></div></div>