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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><font face="Calibri">Dear All,<o:p></o:p></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><font face="Calibri"> <o:p></o:p></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 16pt;"><font face="Calibri">Please find the attendance and MP3 recording along with the AC recording below for the IGO-INGO Curative Rights Protection PDP WG Meeting held on Thursday, 30 March 2017 at 16:00 UTC.</font></p>
<b>Mp3: </b><a href="http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-igo-ingo-crp-pdp-30mar17-en.mp3
">http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-igo-ingo-crp-pdp-30mar17-en.mp3 </a>
<div><b>AC Recording: </b><a href="https://participate.icann.org/p1om4k12bxb/">https://participate.icann.org/p1om4k12bxb/</a></div>
<div><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__audio.icann.org_gnso_gnso-2Dcrp-2Dpdp-2D13oct16-2Den.mp3&d=DQMF-g&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=asM5JoG30Yqf49-Nims9k3McNfFtmzlAe1HmuXI6wic&s=0nZvoU1RqsjvPcNWDN_a2vVZDp9uXeyGO8NN2dN5h74&e=" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 16pt;"><font face="Calibri">On page: </font><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__gnso.icann.org_en_group-2Dactivities_calendar-23dec&d=DgMF-g&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=WjrWeYM_QjNq5LysKiI8HMeyAEf4PlXv0bf3d0ZhePA&s=UCQijLVN1cetQwNdo1k-2kMqzDgu5w-eqjjZ0JiXpfs&e=">https://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#dec[gnso.icann.org]</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><font face="Calibri">The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page:<o:p></o:p></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__gnso.icann.org_en_group-2Dactivities_calendar-23nov&d=DQMF-g&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=wBBn3Ar2_mvUeGcM8rpOAyluUFEJFG5lASQ-cAccI2k&s=3BfiwO43tzwlrIbIyBY4Q-14zsFQCX518fLLR8GWR7I&e=" style="color: purple;"><span style="text-decoration: none;"><font face="Calibri">http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar</font></span></a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><font face="Calibri"> </font><font face="Calibri,sans-serif" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></font></p>
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<b><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;">Attendees:</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><font face="Calibri,sans-serif">David</font><font face="Calibri,sans-serif"> Maher – RySG </font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><font face="Calibri">George Kirikos – Individual</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><font face="Calibri">Jay Chapman – Individual</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><font face="Calibri">Lori Schulman - IPC</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><font face="Calibri">Paul Keating - NCUC</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="background-color: white;"><font face="Calibri">Paul Tattersfield – Individual</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><font face="Calibri"><font face="Calibri,sans-serif">Phil Corwin </font>–<font face="Calibri,sans-serif"> BC</font></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><font face="Calibri"><b style="font-size: 16px;">Apologies:</b><b><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><span style="font-size: 16px;"> </span> </span></b></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><b><font face="Calibri"><span style="font-size: 16px;">ICANN staff:</span><o:p></o:p></font></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><font face="Calibri">Mary Wong</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><font face="Calibri">Steve Chan</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><font face="Calibri">Dennis Chang</font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><font face="Calibri">Michelle DeSmyter </font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><font face="Calibri"> <o:p></o:p></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><font face="Calibri">** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list **<o:p></o:p></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><font face="Calibri"> </font><font face="Calibri,sans-serif" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><font face="Calibri">Mailing list archives:<o:p></o:p></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__mm.icann.org_pipermail_gnso-2Dppsai-2Dpdp-2Dwg_&d=DQMF-g&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=wBBn3Ar2_mvUeGcM8rpOAyluUFEJFG5lASQ-cAccI2k&s=0DPVbyS_PjKHjDK_BuEqUeaDPy30OftE7eI0j4dIwJc&e=" style="color: purple;"><font face="Calibri">http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg/</font></a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><font face="Calibri"> <o:p></o:p></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><font face="Calibri">Wiki page: </font><a href="https://community.icann.org/x/B8TRAw">https://community.icann.org/x/B8TRAw</a></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><font face="Calibri"> <o:p></o:p></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><font face="Calibri">Thank you.<o:p></o:p></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><font face="Calibri">Kind regards,<o:p></o:p></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><font face="Calibri">Michelle DeSmyter <o:p></o:p></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><font face="Calibri"> </font><font face="Calibri,sans-serif" style="font-size: 11pt;"><o:p></o:p></font></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">-------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Adobe Connect chat transcript for </span></b><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Thursday, 30 March 2017</span></b></p>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Michelle DeSmyter 2:Dear All, Welcome to the IGO-INGO Access to Curative Rights Protection Mechanisms Working Group call on Thursday, 30 March 2017 at 16:00 UTC.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Michelle DeSmyter 2:Meeting page: <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_B8TRAw&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=NTuVtUjqjYjSq1pcSRZ2x5liW41M_JglnxE366xnAEA&s=pemTangnTpYAJb96dx3A0b_lFIPgIeiFsfn1hqfgrng&e=">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_B8TRAw&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=NTuVtUjqjYjSq1pcSRZ2x5liW41M_JglnxE366xnAEA&s=pemTangnTpYAJb96dx3A0b_lFIPgIeiFsfn1hqfgrng&e=</a></div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:Hi folks.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Petter Rindforth:Hi there!</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:Hi Petter. How are you today?</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Petter Rindforth:Busy day, and still snow in Stockholm :-)</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:A little bit of snow can be nice! </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:But, too much is awful.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Dennis Chang:Loved Stockholm in snow last week. Beautiful!</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:Where do you reside, Dennis? (I'm in Toronto, so we get 4 proper seasons, including snow in winter) :-)</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Dennis Chang:Los Angeles. Visited Stockholm on my way back from Copenhagan.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:Nice....I guess it's sunny all year, for you.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Dennis Chang:let's see. 22 degrees Sunny. today. </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:Maybe blast out an email reminder?</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Mary Wong:@George, will do</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Paul Tattersfield:Hello everyone</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:Welcome, Paul.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Lori Schulman:Hi'</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Lori Schulman:No sound on phone</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:Hi Lori.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:No one's talking at the moment. :-)</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Paul Tattersfield:Hi George, did you follow the football? - You were very unlucky in the last minute</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Lori Schulman:Now I have sound.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:Echo, echo.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:Someone needs to mute (*6 to mute/unmute).</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:I don't know how it compares to other working groups, but overall we've had pretty good attendance from the "core" group members: <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_display_gnsoicrpmpdp_Attendance-2Blog-2B-2D-2BIGO-2DINGO-2BAccess-2Bto-2BCurative-2BRights-2BProtection-2BMechanisms-2BWorking-2BGroup&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=NTuVtUjqjYjSq1pcSRZ2x5liW41M_JglnxE366xnAEA&s=Si8UXJIEC5cFUQkJs9mf9GXP4UimNOX7y_D9EVwQuL0&e=">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_display_gnsoicrpmpdp_Attendance-2Blog-2B-2D-2BIGO-2DINGO-2BAccess-2Bto-2BCurative-2BRights-2BProtection-2BMechanisms-2BWorking-2BGroup&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=NTuVtUjqjYjSq1pcSRZ2x5liW41M_JglnxE366xnAEA&s=Si8UXJIEC5cFUQkJs9mf9GXP4UimNOX7y_D9EVwQuL0&e=</a></div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Mary Wong:The Working Group co-chairs have the discretion to reschedule a call if they don't believe a sufficient quorum has been reached.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:Jay Chapman and Paul Keating are often here....maybe just running a little late.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Mary Wong:We have 35 as of today</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Paul Tattersfield:I'm planing on submitting comments shortly - I just need to tidy the footnotes</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:Up to 36 now, actually.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:<a href="https://forum.icann.org/lists/comments-igo-ingo-crp-access-initial-20jan17/">https://forum.icann.org/lists/comments-igo-ingo-crp-access-initial-20jan17/</a></div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Mary Wong:Oops, thanks George</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:Some changes to the recommendations might not be necessary -- might need more elaboration/explanation, though, to enhance the final document.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Paul Tattersfield:about 6 me too comments </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Jay Chapman:Forgive my tardiness...hello everyone</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:Welcome Jay.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Jay Chapman:hi George</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Lori Schulman:That is an important acknowledgement by IGOs</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:Is the GAC saying that the "claims notice" should apply to just new gTLDs (i.e. via the TMCH), or would they want it to apply to legacy gTLDs like com/net/org ?</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Mary Wong:@George, I believe the GAC advice has consistently been for new gTLDs (and for future rounds). However, the original PDP - and hence ours - covers both legacy and new gTLDs.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:Right, thanks Mary.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:At least 1 IGO (namely WIPO) is actively involved in the other working group (dealing with UDRP/URS reform, once we get there). </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:reform/review, even</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:The list ICANN/GAC created was arbitrary.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Mary Wong:It was based on the .int criteria</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:.INT says "Only one registration is allowed for each organization", see: <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.iana.org_domains_int_policy&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=NTuVtUjqjYjSq1pcSRZ2x5liW41M_JglnxE366xnAEA&s=XU8sAYn2ZyLqwovjDV-1aTAyG2MXi1bhgX2pBjxXoDs&e=">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.iana.org_domains_int_policy&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=NTuVtUjqjYjSq1pcSRZ2x5liW41M_JglnxE366xnAEA&s=XU8sAYn2ZyLqwovjDV-1aTAyG2MXi1bhgX2pBjxXoDs&e=</a></div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:Yes, the ICANN reserved list for IGOs have multiple reserved strings for some (many) organizations. At least the Article 6ter database is transparent/open.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:Yes=Yet</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:Some of the governments (USA) suggested some organizations claim to be "IGOs", but aren't real IGOs!! (she didn't say which ones are fake, though!)</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Jay Chapman:exactly Phil</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Paul Tattersfield:would it be possible to get a list of those organizations George?</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:Even under UDRP, TM rights are territorial. So, a Belgium TM isn't recognized by Canada, but a Belgium TM holder can file a UDRP against a Canadian domain name owner.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:@Paul: she didn't identify which ones she was talking about.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:For the "facilitate continued discussions", are the IGOs going to participate in this WG more than they have to date?</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Lori Schulman:IGO participation would be very welcome</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Lori Schulman:The absence of the IGO's has hindered the work IMHO</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Philip Corwin:@Lori--I wouldn't hold your breath ;-)</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:Agreed, Lori. We also had 1 GAC member in this IGO (the gentleman from Jamaica).</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:It looks like he's become just an Observer now, though (Gary Campbell): <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_pages_viewpage.action-3FpageId-3D48347895&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=NTuVtUjqjYjSq1pcSRZ2x5liW41M_JglnxE366xnAEA&s=_FQfEwN8Qr91XosEdZimjqKAzFpi-hGGi8Q3AEHwqX8&e=">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_pages_viewpage.action-3FpageId-3D48347895&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=NTuVtUjqjYjSq1pcSRZ2x5liW41M_JglnxE366xnAEA&s=_FQfEwN8Qr91XosEdZimjqKAzFpi-hGGi8Q3AEHwqX8&e=</a></div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Lori Schulman:I know, no breath holding...but I have emphasized this point at every opportunity</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Lori Schulman:If IGO's are not here then my organization is not open to my spending too much more time on this</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Mary Wong:At this stage in our work, perhaps we can consider the many public comments submitted (including the +1s) as a form of participation.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Philip Corwin:If ICANN had a sargent-at-arms we culd compel their participation ;-)</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:The organizations can still rely on their common law rights, though (i.e. their names), even if not registered in the Article 6ter database.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:Standing is such an easy test to meet.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Lori Schulman:Its actually not so easy</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:LOL Phil</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:For the UDRP, I mean, Lori (not court-level standing). First prong of the UDRP/URS is often called the "standing" test. 99% of the time, that test is passed.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Lori Schulman:that is what we have been grappling with...using a trademark system for adjudicating rights that may not be legally recognized as trademark rigths</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Paul Tattersfield:@George its evideencing the non registered rights that makes the work</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:Their same position since 2002, Phil.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Lori Schulman:Got it, George</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Lori Schulman:Not all jurisdictions recognize common law rights</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> PAUL KEATING:Sorry for being late.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:True, Lori. But, for the UDRP, most panelists aren't sticklers for that level of detail. :-) They care more about the "bad faith" parts of the test.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> PAUL KEATING:@Lori, however the UDRP panels traditionally DO recognize common law trademarks.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Lori Schulman:Paul K: Are they doing that for non commonlaw countries?</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Mary Wong:@Phil, IGO full names will be reserved at the second level - that was a PDP recommendation adopted by the ICANN Board (currently in implementation).</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Lori Schulman:It's been years since I have handled UDRP work</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:France is civil law, right? I'm sure we can find a French complainant that relied upon a common law right, i.e. unregistered rights.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Lori Schulman:Yes, France is civil law.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> PAUL KEATING:in teh UDRP context it is sufficient to show rights that would supprot a passing off cliam. That is a far lower standard.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Lori Schulman:Common Law are former UK colonies; US, Canada, Australia, NZ, etc</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Paul Tattersfield:@Lori does that matter? Are non common law systems specifically excluded?</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Lori Schulman:I don't know. My understanding is that common law rights are only recognized in Common Law jurisdictions</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:I found a case, Lori.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:<a href="http://www.wipo.int/amc/en/domains/search/text.jsp?case=D2013-2024">http://www.wipo.int/amc/en/domains/search/text.jsp?case=D2013-2024</a></div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:Does the fact that unregistered trademarks are not recognised as such in France mean that French entities are to be disadvantaged as against entities based in common law countries such as the UK or
in civil law countries such as Germany where unregistered trademarks are recognised by statute? The Panel does not think so. </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:(and so on) :-)</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Lori Schulman:Of course you did. You missed your calling, George. Librarian extraordinaire.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> PAUL KEATING:@Phil, are we going to give notice to everyone now? </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:hehe :-) When I've had litigation, I've helped my own lawyers in finding good precedents that they didn't find. </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Mary Wong:@George, @Lori - it may be more appropriate to speak of "registered" and "unregistered" trademarks rather than "common law rights" for the latter.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Paul Tattersfield:Thanks George that is useful</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:Yes, Mary.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Lori Schulman:Thanks Mary, agree.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Mary Wong:Regardless, though, the problem Lori noted remains with the UDRP/URS - even unregistered trademarks rely on the Complainant having some form of trademark-type rights. </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Petter Rindforth:Compare with .eu ADR: The Complaint shall specify the names in respect of which a right is recognized or established by the national law of a Member State and/or Community law. For each such name,
describe exactly the type of right(s) claimed, specify the law or law(s) as well as the conditions under which the right is recognized and/or established. In other words: can be any kind of protected name right in any member state.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Mary Wong:@Petter, yes, so a dispute resolution procedure can conceivably be broader than just trademark rights (registered or otherwise).</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:By George :-)</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:I think it might have been Bruce Tonkin who gave the WHO Magazine thought experiment.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:Immunity is a defence to an action. It doesn't apply when they're the initiator of the dispute.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:+1 Paul Keating</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Paul Tattersfield:exactly they are seeking to use UDRP or URS as a sword to seize assets from third parties as opposed to using UDRP or URS to defend their own assets</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:We need to methodically do the work, though, to dot all the i's and cross all the t's.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Lori Schulman:Please remember that the sword is against bad actors. </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:Alleged bad actors. Even bad actors deserve due process.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Lori Schulman:We are not denying due process. </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:If it was so easy to identify "bad actors", we need not even have courts. :-)</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:36</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:37 now.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Paul Tattersfield:Agrreed Lori , however there are better mechanisms than UDRP/URS that can be used for 99% of the bad actors </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Lori Schulman:And BTW, there is a case law that says that ADR offers due process. I don't agree with the assumption that only courts provide due process.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:WHO just submitted a "me too" comment.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Lori Schulman:that makes me laugh</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Lori Schulman:WIPO comments were quite different from GAS, UNESCO, USG comments</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Lori Schulman:I meant GAC. Freudian slip.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Mary Wong:GNSO Council has to approve before it goes to the Board</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:ADR can be beneficial, but only if both sides consent to it. IGOs want to compel others into a binding process that they've designed --- that's forum shopping.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> PAUL KEATING:ok</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Petter Rindforth:@Lori - if we talk about WIPO - a number of other IGO's simply replied supporting WIPO's comments</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:Here's the GAC comment: <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__forum.icann.org_lists_comments-2Digo-2Dingo-2Dcrp-2Daccess-2Dinitial-2D20jan17_msg00023.html&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=NTuVtUjqjYjSq1pcSRZ2x5liW41M_JglnxE366xnAEA&s=kuaT3epyEzWOZC8xHXwQOD5FVEJybvJ7m7Ce4Tc9mp8&e=">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__forum.icann.org_lists_comments-2Digo-2Dingo-2Dcrp-2Daccess-2Dinitial-2D20jan17_msg00023.html&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=NTuVtUjqjYjSq1pcSRZ2x5liW41M_JglnxE366xnAEA&s=kuaT3epyEzWOZC8xHXwQOD5FVEJybvJ7m7Ce4Tc9mp8&e=</a></div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:It's 2 pages long.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:That's it.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:Oops, 3 pages, even.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Paul Tattersfield:other entities with the same anacrnyms</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:That 3rd parties can use the same acronyms, as long as it's non-infringing.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Mary Wong:+1 George</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Lori Schulman:I took it to mean that way Phil described. Can we ask the GAC to clarify?</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:But, the IGOs shouldn't be the ones to be determining who is "legitimate", and who is not. e.g. a free speech site criticizing IGOs is protected in the USA, Canada, and other countries.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Mary Wong:@Lori, the WG can request the GNSO Council to include that as a clarifying question in its review of the GAC Communique that is sent to the Board. A draft is being prepared for the Council's 20 April meeting.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:But, IGOs might say "that's not legitimate."</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Lori Schulman:I would just like to understand precisely what they mean.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Lori Schulman:I am not in favor of rushing though comments.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Paul Tattersfield:I agree Lori</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Lori Schulman:I think that the standing would be worked out if there were a separate DRP</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Lori Schulman:It might be supplying evidence of the organizing treaty</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:But, a separate DRP, not grounded in any law, would be creation of brand new law.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:i.e. what is the underlying "legal dispute" that the new curative process for IGOs is attempting to address?</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Mary Wong:@George, in 2007 a separate DRP was drafted for consideration that was based on 6ter.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:Right, Mary. But, under Article 6ter, it's NATIONS who are ones with the treaty obligations.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:So, that means it would be the Government of Canada, Government of USA, etc. who would be the complainants.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:But, we know from the State Department letter for UNIFEM that they said that IGOs should file a TM lawsuit, to enforce rights.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:That availability of the courts fulfilled their obligations.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:i.e. those were trademark rights, just like the UDRP.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:Here was the UNIFEM stuff: <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.state.gov_s_l_38648.htm&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=NTuVtUjqjYjSq1pcSRZ2x5liW41M_JglnxE366xnAEA&s=CME99faBDHf5ORXlCJSHN3dHZZo0CBJOHtv-FehE5_0&e=">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.state.gov_s_l_38648.htm&d=DwICaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=NTuVtUjqjYjSq1pcSRZ2x5liW41M_JglnxE366xnAEA&s=CME99faBDHf5ORXlCJSHN3dHZZo0CBJOHtv-FehE5_0&e=</a></div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:". But, as noted in the preceding paragraph, the latter obligation would be met under the laws of general application that the United States has enacted, and it is the responsibility of the party
claiming than an infringement has occurred to take action under U.S. law to challenge perceived unlawful use in commerce."</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:Also, "For example, the Trademark Act of 1946, as amended, 15 U.S.C. u 1051 et seq., offers the possibility for interested parties to challenge use of marks in commerce based on theories, inter alia,
of likelihood of confusion, false association and unfair competition. These laws satisfy U.S. obligations under article 6ter by providing the opportunity for States and international intergovernmental organizations to pursue remedies for the unauthorized use
of names and other insignia listed in article 6ter, including in cases involving use on the INTERNET. Responsibility for evaluating potentially infringing use of trademarks and other intellectual property, and for taking enforcement action when deemed appropriate,
however, rests with the party whose interests are affected."</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Mary Wong:We will send around the draft procedure Petter and I mentioned to the WG by email..</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:So, that letter is disagreeing with the notion that they're in a unique category.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Mary Wong:@George, that may be one reason why the USG filed a public comment for our Initial Report - a concern that TM rights not be unduly expanded?</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:I'm not sure, Mary. I actually wrote an email to the USG person who authored their position, for my own personaly research, to try to get some explanations on their reasoning, but none was forthcoming.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:*personaly = personal</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Paul Tattersfield:exactly</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:Policy Guidance is comparable to the WIPO overview -- an independent review of standing, through very thorough background research, more than any individual panelist could afford to do on a simple
case.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Mary Wong:@Lori, not from ICANN, no.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:Not from ICANN, Lori. But, WIPO has their Overview of Selected Questions.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:I'm not sure if NAF has any independent training manuals that are similar.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> PAUL KEATING:@Lori, there is a "policy" which is the Panel Index 2.0 at WIPO</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Mary Wong:It seems to staff that the main objection to Policy Guidance is that it merely interprets - and doesn't expand or amend - the existing UDRP grounds.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Mary Wong:The objection being, when it DOES, then it is not appropriate for Policy Guidance.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Petter Rindforth:I presume that at least the most well-known IGO's can claim unregistered but well-known trademark rights for their names (connected to some services)</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Petter Rindforth:...without having to refer to Article 6ter</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Mary Wong:@Lori, that is indeed one of the USG concerns.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:+1 Paul Keating</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Mary Wong:@Paul K, yes, that was one of the problems highlighted during the GAC-GNSO discussions - that communication under 6ter does NOT go through any examination by WIPO. And the USG pointed out that only some
countries do any further examination.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:6ter might be like unreviewed Benelux TMs. But, there are 2 other prongs to the UDRP, so losing the first rarely matters.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Lori Schulman:USPTO does "examine" 6 ter notices before they hit the register</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Mary Wong:@George, losing under the first ground pretty much ends the Complaint.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:Almost always, it comes down to the 3rd prong (bad faith), and occasionaly the 2nd prong.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:Yes, Mary. But, it's rarely ever determinative, is my point.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:99% of the time, the first prong is met.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Mary Wong:And that is one of the criticisms of it :)</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:It's not like the IGO is going to bring up the mark "UNESCO", for a dispute over "BABIES.com".</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Lori Schulman:Got it Paul K.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:It has to have some resemblance to the domain under dispute, that's all.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Paul Tattersfield:Agree Paul so well put</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Lori Schulman:I like the idea of 6ter as an element to prove standing not the sole basis</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:The ones who want the "strict" interpretation of Article 6tter want the most liberal rules for everything else, ironically. </div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:(i.e. creating a brand new binding arbitration has no basis in law whatsoever, if they want to stricly interpret things)</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:Some of the constituencies will hopefully comment by the end of today.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Lori Schulman:IPC will</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:It might take 2 or 3 calls. We need to be systematic.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Mary Wong:Thanks, Phil - that gives us a bit more breathing room to complete the staff summary!</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:We can perhaps continue on the list, for some things.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Lori Schulman:I like the idea of relying more on the list</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Lori Schulman:I am saturated with ICANN calls like many others</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:Yes, 90 mins for the RPM on Wednesdays, and 90 mins for IGOs on Thursdays is a kiiller combo.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Petter Rindforth:I think it is easy to go throgh all comments on a summarized base</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Lori Schulman:my head hurts, literally, from the headphones</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:Are you in a big office, Lori?</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Lori Schulman:no, I am at home most of the time</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:(I have it on speakerphone, but muted, then I switch to the handset when speaking)</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Mary Wong:The WG has a responsibility to review all comments - though of course that means that all WG members are presumed to have done so; for the actual calls, the WG can elect to focus only on some.</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Lori Schulman:but I have people and activities around me</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> PAUL KEATING:i surrender</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Lori Schulman:Mary, right, we have to review all comments</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Lori Schulman:But I like Paul's question: How does this affect the report?</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Jay Chapman:thanks, all</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Lori Schulman:We should ask it for every one,</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:So, are we going to do outreach to the IGOs one more time?</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Lori Schulman:bye</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:(i.e. the facilitated discussion?)</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Paul Tattersfield:thanks all bye</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> PAUL KEATING:thank you all. Have great days</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> Petter Rindforth:Is there anything else than ICANN in this world?</div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"> George Kirikos:Bye folks.</div>
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