<div dir="ltr">Agreed. But that is not a reason in support of anonymous polling. And "wasting time" in context of this working group is an ironic concept. The entire WG has been a tremendous waste of time to try to solve a purported problem that has never been proved to exist. And whose proponents have refused to participate in the WG. It is all the more reason NOT to have an anonymous poll as an estimation of consensus. After three years(?!), nobody should be inputting anonymous views into the process now.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:arial;font-size:small">Mike Rodenbaugh</div><div style="font-family:arial;font-size:small">RODENBAUGH LAW</div><div style="font-family:arial;font-size:small">tel/fax: +1.415.738.8087</div><div style="font-family:arial;font-size:small"><a href="http://rodenbaugh.com" target="_blank">http://rodenbaugh.com</a> </div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jan 12, 2018 at 12:22 PM, David W. Maher <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dmaher@pir.org" target="_blank">dmaher@pir.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<div class="m_3074094543243846594WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">I</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d"> think the group is wasting time arguing about procedure<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">David W. Maher<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Public Interest Registry<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Senior Vice-President – Law & Policy<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><a href="tel:(312)%20375-4849" value="+13123754849" target="_blank">+1 312 375 4849</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Mike Rodenbaugh [mailto:<a href="mailto:mike@rodenbaugh.com" target="_blank">mike@rodenbaugh.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, January 12, 2018 2:13 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> David W. Maher <<a href="mailto:dmaher@pir.org" target="_blank">dmaher@pir.org</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Paul Keating <<a href="mailto:paul@law.es" target="_blank">paul@law.es</a>>; <a href="mailto:gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-igo-ingo-crp] Invitation to a call with the IGO-INGO Curative Rights Working Group co-chairs<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi David,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Always good to hear from you. Can you explain why, briefly?<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Mike<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all">
<u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Mike Rodenbaugh<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">RODENBAUGH LAW<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">tel/fax: <a href="tel:(415)%20738-8087" value="+14157388087" target="_blank">+1.415.738.8087</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><a href="http://rodenbaugh.com" target="_blank">http://rodenbaugh.com</a> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Jan 12, 2018 at 12:00 PM, David W. Maher <<a href="mailto:dmaher@pir.org" target="_blank">dmaher@pir.org</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d">I support the use of an anonymous poll.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">David W. Maher</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Public Interest Registry</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Senior Vice-President – Law & Policy</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><a href="tel:(312)%20375-4849" target="_blank">+1 312 375 4849</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Gnso-igo-ingo-crp [mailto:<a href="mailto:gnso-igo-ingo-crp-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-igo-ingo-crp-<wbr>bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Mike Rodenbaugh<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, January 12, 2018 1:40 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Paul Keating <<a href="mailto:paul@law.es" target="_blank">paul@law.es</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Gnso-igo-ingo-crp] Invitation to a call with the IGO-INGO Curative Rights Working Group co-chairs</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Agreed this is ridiculous. Does anyone except Petter and Phil support an anonymous poll of this WG? I don't recall seeing any other support for it, so I am flabbergasted by their
extraordinary efforts to force one on the WG.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all">
<u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Mike Rodenbaugh</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">RODENBAUGH LAW</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">tel/fax: <a href="tel:(415)%20738-8087" target="_blank">+1.415.738.8087</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><a href="http://rodenbaugh.com" target="_blank">http://rodenbaugh.com</a> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Jan 12, 2018 at 11:06 AM, Paul Keating <<a href="mailto:paul@law.es" target="_blank">paul@law.es</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
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<p class="MsoNormal">My 2 cents.<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Respectfully, this bickering must stop and we need to focus on resolution. <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">The underlying dispute was the objection to the use of an anonymous poll. The main objection (at least from my understanding) was the anonymous part which leads to inaccuracies
and potential abuse.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">What was supposed to be a constructive attempt to resolve the dispute informally became embroiled in procedural objections. Instead of making an effort to resolve conflict by
listening to the objections involved in the appeal, the substantive discussion was aborted so a “record” could be created.<br>
<br>
The result was a continued delay of the matter. <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Of course this also means that the WG CONTINUES TO BE STALLED. Why the process must be stalled because of the insistence to use anonymous polling is rather confusing to me. It
would appear that time is better spent actually moving forward and seeking to determine consensus in an open and transparent manner.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">As said, my 2 cents.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Paul Keating<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div id="m_3074094543243846594m_6251427265223944965m_1271237467903917822AppleMailSignature">
<p class="MsoNormal">Sent from my iPad<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
On 12 Jan 2018, at 18:17, Corwin, Philip via Gnso-igo-ingo-crp <<a href="mailto:gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">The call transcript can be found at
<a href="https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/79429635/transcript%20Discussion%20George%E2%80%99s%20appeal%20under%20section%203%207%20GNSO%20WG%20guidelines%20%2011%20Jan%202018.pdf?version=1&modificationDate=1515769818000&api=v2" target="_blank">
https://community.icann.org/<wbr>download/attachments/79429635/<wbr>transcript%20Discussion%<wbr>20George%E2%80%99s%20appeal%<wbr>20under%20section%203%207%<wbr>20GNSO%20WG%20guidelines%20%<wbr>2011%20Jan%202018.pdf?version=<wbr>1&modificationDate=<wbr>1515769818000&api=v2</a>
<br>
<br>
For the record, I disagree with George's characterization that he was "interrupted immediately".
<br>
<br>
What occurred was that George submitted a 12-page document with 28 footnotes that arrived by email just 76 minutes prior to the start of the call. I had no opportunity to read much less consider its content prior to the call.<br>
<br>
When the call commenced I asked for mutual agreement that, given the length of the document and the fact that it arrived without advance notice, the co-chairs be accorded the courtesy of being given a few days after conclusion of the call to fully consider
its contents and to respond in writing if they wished to do so. I expected this request to be noncontroversial but it proved otherwise.
<br>
<br>
Philip S. Corwin<br>
Policy Counsel<br>
VeriSign, Inc.<br>
<a href="https://maps.google.com/?q=12061+Bluemont+Way+%0D+Reston,+VA+20190&entry=gmail&source=g" target="_blank">12061 Bluemont Way</a><br>
Reston, VA 20190<br>
<a href="tel:(703)%20948-4648" target="_blank">703-948-4648</a>/Direct<br>
<a href="tel:(571)%20342-7489" target="_blank">571-342-7489</a>/Cell<br>
<br>
"Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Gnso-igo-ingo-crp [<a href="mailto:gnso-igo-ingo-crp-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">mailto:gnso-igo-ingo-crp-<wbr>bounces@icann.org</a>] On Behalf Of George Kirikos<br>
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2018 11:09 AM<br>
To: gnso-igo-ingo-. <<a href="mailto:gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org" target="_blank">gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org</a>><br>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Gnso-igo-ingo-crp] Invitation to a call with the IGO-INGO Curative Rights Working Group co-chairs<br>
<br>
Hi folks,<br>
<br>
The archive of yesterday's call, to appeal the use of anonymous polling within this working group has been posted by ICANN. Notice how my presentation was interrupted immediately, and then we got completely bogged down by process issues. Another call is scheduled
for next week.<br>
<br>
<a href="https://community.icann.org/display/...+Working+Group" target="_blank">https://community.icann.org/<wbr>display/...+Working+Group</a><br>
<br>
[The best link to use is the "AC Recording" (shows the chatroom, and audio, as well as ability to jump back/forth using the controls at the bottom).]<br>
<br>
Have a nice weekend!<br>
<br>
Sincerely,<br>
<br>
George Kirikos<br>
<a href="tel:(416)%20588-0269" target="_blank">416-588-0269</a><br>
<a href="http://www.leap.com/" target="_blank">http://www.leap.com/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 10:43 AM, George Kirikos <<a href="mailto:icann@leap.com" target="_blank">icann@leap.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi folks,<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">In the spirit of transparency, attached is documentation for the basis
<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">of the Section 3.7 appeal (meeting today at noon Eastern time, as
<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">previously noted), for the benefit of all members of this PDP.<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Sincerely,<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">George Kirikos<u></u><u></u></p>
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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="tel:(416)%20588-0269" target="_blank">416-588-0269</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.leap.com/" target="_blank">http://www.leap.com/</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Jan 5, 2018 at 6:33 PM, George Kirikos <<a href="mailto:icann@leap.com" target="_blank">icann@leap.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Just confirming receipt of the invitation to a call on Thursday, 11
<u></u><u></u></p>
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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">January 2018 at 17:00 UTC for 60 minutes.<u></u><u></u></p>
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</blockquote>
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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">(09:00 PST, 12:00 EST, 17:00 London GMT, 18:00 Paris CET) that I was
<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">sent off-list. If others interested in the Section 3.7 appeal want to
<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">attend, presumably they can contact ICANN Staff (Mary, etc.) for the
<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">relevant passcode/invite and call-in details.<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Have a nice weekend!<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Sincerely,<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">George Kirikos<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="tel:(416)%20588-0269" target="_blank">416-588-0269</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.leap.com/" target="_blank">http://www.leap.com/</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal">______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Gnso-igo-ingo-crp mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org" target="_blank">Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org</a><br>
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______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Gnso-igo-ingo-crp mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org" target="_blank">Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org</a><br>
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</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Gnso-igo-ingo-crp mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org" target="_blank">Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org</a><br>
<a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-igo-ingo-crp" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/gnso-igo-ingo-crp</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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