[Gnso-igo-ingo] [Ext] Re: Fw: Proposed agenda for the first meeting of this reconvened PDP Working Group on Red Cross names
Alan Greenberg
alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca
Thu Jun 22 19:09:38 UTC 2017
Thanks James,
On your first item, I have no doubt that there
could be people (more likely among those that DID
participate earlier) who would want to re-open
the entire bag-of-laughs, but I also have no
doubt that those running the show and a lot of
others would tell them where to get off...
But simply acting "reasonably" is fine with me as well.
Alan
At 22/06/2017 02:53 PM, James M. Bladel wrote:
>Good thoughts from Alan and Thomas. But there
>are other factors that must be considered as well.
>
>Keep in mind that this (Section 16) process is
>meant to be a light-weight "are you sure?"
>review of a subset of the PDP recommendations,
>not a blank page re-do of the work. With this in
>mind, we should be very wary of admitting new
>members who did not participate on the original
>PDP. Otherwise, we foster a perception that
>Section 16 is the "real" PDP, a second bite at
>the apple, and all of the previous work was just some preliminary exercise.
>
>That said, this particular situation is
>challenged by extreme gap elapsed between the
>original PDP (late 2013) and the reconvened
>group. Many of the individuals or groups who
>participated on the original PDP may not be
>available this time around for a variety of
>reasons. As I indicated during the first call,
>the reconvened WG should therefore be open to
>common sense admission of new members, if it can
>be shown that they are replacing a point of view
>or stakeholder that would otherwise be absent from the Section 16 review.
>
>This is the first instance where the GNSO is
>engaging in its review procedure, and we are
>very wary of creating precedents that will
>outlive the topic du jour and be applied,
>perhaps incorrectly, to future PDPs. But I am
>confident that Thomas Rickert and the members of
>the PDP will exercise good judgement in allowing
>some necessary new members, but without opening
>the floodgates to any & all interested newcomers
>
>Thank you,
>
>J.
>-----------------
>James Bladel
>GNSO Chair
>
>On Jun 21, 2017, 10:30 -0500, Alan Greenberg
><alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca>, wrote:
>>I missed this thread when it started.
>>
>>We have always (as long as I can recall anyway)
>>allowed people to join a PDP WG part-way
>>through the process - with an understanding
>>that they need to get up to speed on the
>>issues. I see nothing wrong with people joining
>>a reconvened PDP WG. If it is reconvened, it is
>>back in operation (with a more targeted
>>mandate) - no reason to impose new rules.
>>
>>Moreover, it is certain that some of the
>>original participants may not wish to play in
>>the sandbox, so replacing them would also be a natural occurrence.
>>
>>Alan
>>
>>At 21/06/2017 11:10 AM, Thomas.Schneider at bakom.admin.ch wrote:
>>
>>>Dear all
>>>
>>>first of all, thanks to Greg for raising an important question.
>>>
>>>I am not too familiar with the exact
>>>procedural aspects of GNSO work, but the point
>>>that I am making is a rather general one:
>>>
>>>We all agreed that it would be useful and in
>>>the interest of all if GNSO PDPs were as be open and inclusive as possible.
>>>And we also agreed that the GAC should engage
>>>as early as possible in GNSO work that is
>>>relevant from a public policy perspective.
>>>
>>>So I think it is important that GAC (as well
>>>as all other stakeholders) are able to
>>>participate in this particular workstream.
>>>
>>>whether this is now a new or resumed old
>>>process and whether you can or have to do a
>>>new public call or not, I can^t tell, but in
>>>any case all this should allow all those who
>>>want and who should to participate in this and
>>>all of this should be done transparently.
>>>
>>>I hope this helps J
>>>
>>>Thomas
>>>
>>>Von: Mary Wong [ mailto:mary.wong at icann.org]
>>>Gesendet: Montag, 12. Juni 2017 18:26
>>>An: Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc at gmail.com>; gnso-igo-ingo at icann.org
>>>Cc: Schneider Thomas BAKOM
>>><Thomas.Schneider at bakom.admin.ch>; Charlotte
>>>Lindsey Curtet <clindsey at icrc.org>; Cancio
>>>Jorge BAKOM <Jorge.Cancio at bakom.admin.ch>;
>>>Mark Carvell <mark.carvell at culture.gov.uk>;
>>>Stephane Hankins <shankins at icrc.org>
>>>Betreff: Re: [Ext] Re: [Gnso-igo-ingo] Fw:
>>>Proposed agenda for the first meeting of this
>>>reconvened PDP Working Group on Red Cross names
>>>
>>>Dear Greg and everyone,
>>>
>>>Staff is consulting with Thomas and the GNSO
>>>Council leadership regarding the question you
>>>raised. Our understanding was that the
>>>consultation that is mandatory in this policy
>>>amendment process is with the original PDP
>>>Working Group, reconvened, and is thus not a
>>>new Working Group (which would require an open
>>>call for volunteers). Observers to the GAC
>>>(e.g. the Red Cross and various IGOs) were
>>>participants in the Working Group, however,
>>>which was formed in the days when GNSO Working
>>>Groups did not have the option to sign up only
>>>to be an observer, so one option here could be
>>>for new participants to be observers rather than members to the Working Group.
>>>
>>>In any event, we will confirm once the GNSO
>>>Council leadership has had a chance to discuss the matter.
>>>
>>>Thanks and cheers
>>>Mary
>>>
>>>From: Greg Shatan <<mailto:gregshatanipc at gmail.com>gregshatanipc at gmail.com >
>>>Date: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 at 00:04
>>>To: "
>>><mailto:gnso-igo-ingo at icann.org>gnso-igo-ingo at icann.org"
>>><<mailto:gnso-igo-ingo at icann.org>gnso-igo-ingo at icann.org >
>>>Cc: Mary Wong
>>><<mailto:mary.wong at icann.org>mary.wong at icann.org>,
>>>"
>>><mailto:Thomas.Schneider at bakom.admin.ch>Thomas.Schneider at bakom.admin.ch"
>>><
>>><mailto:Thomas.Schneider at bakom.admin.ch>Thomas.Schneider at bakom.admin.ch>,
>>>Charlotte Lindsey Curtet
>>><<mailto:clindsey at icrc.org>clindsey at icrc.org>,
>>>"<
>>><mailto:Jorge.Cancio at bakom.admin.ch>Jorge.Cancio at bakom.admin.ch>"
>>><
>>><mailto:Jorge.Cancio at bakom.admin.ch>Jorge.Cancio at bakom.admin.ch>,
>>>Mark Carvell <
>>><mailto:mark.carvell at culture.gov.uk>mark.carvell at culture.gov.uk>,
>>>Stephane Hankins <<mailto:shankins at icrc.org>shankins at icrc.org>
>>>Subject: [Ext] Re: [Gnso-igo-ingo] Fw:
>>>Proposed agenda for the first meeting of this
>>>reconvened PDP Working Group on Red Cross names
>>>
>>>I thought that Stephane's request raised an
>>>interesting procedural question/quandary, and
>>>I was a little surprised to see it granted without discussion.
>>>
>>>The PDP Manual is rather sparse, stating only
>>>that the first step in the
>>>amendment/modification process is that: "The
>>>PDP Team is reconvened or, if disbanded,
>>>reformed, and should be consulted with regards
>>>to the proposed amendments or modifications;"
>>>
>>>I had thought of this as "getting the band
>>>back together again," i.e., bringing together
>>>the team that had participated in the original
>>>PDP process so they could be consulted based
>>>on their experience and expertise gained
>>>through the deliberations of the Working
>>>Group. As such I had the idea that the
>>>reconvened WG was limited to the pre-existing members of the WG.
>>>
>>>Of course, Working Groups are generally open
>>>to new participants at any time, unless stated
>>>otherwise, and subject to certain limitations
>>>(i.e., later joiners must read the existing
>>>documents, etc. of the group and may not
>>>re-open decided points absent compelling new
>>>evidence). It was just not clear to me that
>>>this general rule applied to a reconvened
>>>working group, given my understanding of why
>>>the "old" group is reconstituted rather than just forming a new group.
>>>
>>>If the general rule applies, and the group is
>>>open to new members, doesn't it then make
>>>sense to put out a general call for new
>>>members? We should allow all stakeholders the
>>>same opportunity, rather than having new membership be "by invitation only."
>>>
>>>To me, the current situation is a somewhat
>>>uncomfortable midway point between bringing
>>>the old gang together and essentially
>>>convening a new group under the name of the old one.
>>>
>>>It would be unfortunate to start our work with
>>>a procedural irregularity, particularly where
>>>the invitation for selected new members to
>>>participate has come from the party that is
>>>inarguably most interested in the outcome of
>>>this process. This could set an unfortunate
>>>precedent for future work under Section 16.
>>>
>>>I look forward to the thoughts of
>>>others. Apologies that I cannot be on Wednesday's call to raise the issue.
>>>
>>>Best regards,
>>>
>>>Greg
>>>
>>>On Mon, Jun 12, 2017 at 6:28 AM, Stephane
>>>Hankins <<mailto:shankins at icrc.org>shankins at icrc.org> wrote:
>>>Dear Mary,
>>>Many thanks for the agenda of the first call
>>>of the reconvened PDP Working Group, just received.
>>>On Jorge Cancio's suggestion, could you kindly
>>>consider to add the names and e-mails of
>>>Thomas Schneider, Jorge Cancio and Mark
>>>Carvell to the distributions' list and
>>>invitations for the reconvened PDP Working
>>>Group meeting calls. It is important that the
>>>voice of member States of the GAC be also, and as far as possible, represented.
>>>Could you also kindly add Charlotte's name and
>>>e-mail as well (Charlotte Lindsey:
>>><mailto:clindsey at icrc.org>clindsey at icrc.org).
>>>With thanks and kind regards,
>>>Stéphane
>>>
>>>Stéphane J. Hankins
>>>Legal adviser
>>>Cooperation and coordination within the Movement
>>>International Committee of the Red Cross
>>>Tel (direct line): ++0041 <tel:22%20730%2024%2019>22 730 24 19
>>>----- Forwarded by Stephane
>>>Hankins/DIR_GEN_MOUV_CHF/GVA/ICRC on 12.06.2017 12:11 -----
>>>From: Mary Wong <<mailto:mary.wong at icann.org>mary.wong at icann.org>
>>>To:
>>>"<mailto:gnso-igo-ingo at icann.org>gnso-igo-ingo at icann.org
>>>" <<mailto:gnso-igo-ingo at icann.org>gnso-igo-ingo at icann.org >
>>>Date: 12.06.2017 12:00
>>>Subject: [Gnso-igo-ingo] Proposed agenda
>>>for the first meeting of this reconvened PDP Working Group on Red Cross names
>>>Sent
>>>by:
>>><mailto:gnso-igo-ingo-bounces at icann.org>gnso-igo-ingo-bounces at icann.org
>>>
>>>
>>>Dear all,
>>>
>>>Please find below the proposed agenda for this
>>>first call of our reconvened PDP Working
>>>Group, which agenda has been approved by Thomas Rickert, our chair:
>>>
>>>1. Roll call/reminder to updates Statements of Interest
>>>2. Overview of the GNSO policy amendment
>>>process (i.e. steps, possible outcomes, role
>>>of the Council and the Board vis-Ã -vis the
>>>WG etc.) (led by GNSO Council Chairs)
>>>3. Review and discussion of the scope of
>>>the GNSO Council request (led by GNSO Council Chairs/Thomas Rickert)
>>>4. Recap of why and what brought us here
>>>(i.e. overview of the Copenhagen facilitated
>>>discussions highlighting the post-PDP
>>>developments (GAC advice) and the limited
>>>nature of the list of Red Cross names) (led by
>>>GNSO Council Chairs/Thomas Rickert)
>>>5. Recap and review of the original
>>>policy recommendations (led by Thomas Rickert)
>>>6. Discussion of a possible timeline for
>>>the WG and reporting back to the GNSO Council (led by Thomas Rickert)
>>>7. Next steps/next meeting
>>>
>>>For this first meeting, you may find the following links helpful:
>>>GNSO Council request to initiate this policy
>>>amendment process -
>>><https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__gnso.icann.org_en_council_resolutions-2320170503-2D071&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DJ69mAe-idEhpAMF1nu2x6c2w3xl7xb5cjS_7sB4h6Y&m=yaJNcfh31vRfFrojIqOxU1z_2Wnf3Gxn2usmZVzs8Ss&s=QGhvleIaz1jrmwV718n0k1y-rJ_0On-AZiujfA7YJfA&e=>https://gnso.icann.org/en/council/resolutions#20170503-071[gnso.icann.org]
>>>
>>>The GNSO PDP Manual (this policy amendment
>>>process is described in Section 16) -
>>><https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__gnso.icann.org_en_council_annex-2D2-2Dpdp-2Dmanual-2D01sep16-2Den.pdf&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DJ69mAe-idEhpAMF1nu2x6c2w3xl7xb5cjS_7sB4h6Y&m=yaJNcfh31vRfFrojIqOxU1z_2Wnf3Gxn2usmZVzs8Ss&s=Hu0SXxhOC8-dtzhxFXoCQOQGSCCxDrWbzfXvs3K1hw8&e=>https://gnso.icann.org/en/council/annex-2-pdp-manual-01sep16-en.pdf[gnso.icann.org]
>>>
>>>The original (Nov 2013) Final Report from our
>>>Working Group -
>>><https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__gnso.icann.org_en_issues_igo-2Dingo-2Dfinal-2D10nov13-2Den.pdf&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DJ69mAe-idEhpAMF1nu2x6c2w3xl7xb5cjS_7sB4h6Y&m=yaJNcfh31vRfFrojIqOxU1z_2Wnf3Gxn2usmZVzs8Ss&s=gMGjzT8WmhuN8C6m0uMBbyS_m9s-EhWHOdGtp71pQ_M&e=>https://gnso.icann.org/en/issues/igo-ingo-final-10nov13-en.pdf[gnso.icann.org]
>>>(the Minority Statements can be found here:
>>><https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__gnso.icann.org_en_issues_igo-2Dingo-2Dfinal-2Dminority-2Dpositions-2D10nov13-2Den.pdf&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DJ69mAe-idEhpAMF1nu2x6c2w3xl7xb5cjS_7sB4h6Y&m=yaJNcfh31vRfFrojIqOxU1z_2Wnf3Gxn2usmZVzs8Ss&s=7CeYaWSLu7EeXwraUq4VFVRwprp_nOBhZE0LtKkdxak&e=>https://gnso.icann.org/en/issues/igo-ingo-final-minority-positions-10nov13-en.pdf[gnso.icann.org]
>>>)
>>>Transcript and recording from the ICANN58
>>>GAC-GNSO facilitated dialogue on Red Cross
>>>names -
>>><https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__schd.ws_hosted-5Ffiles_icann58copenhagen2017_39_Transcript-2520IGO-2520Red-2520Cross-252011-2520March-2520Copenhagen.pdf&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DJ69mAe-idEhpAMF1nu2x6c2w3xl7xb5cjS_7sB4h6Y&m=yaJNcfh31vRfFrojIqOxU1z_2Wnf3Gxn2usmZVzs8Ss&s=UrP849cI9lPRht0iHnOiKp26RaK8BzXbecuCfJJ7ruA&e=>http://schd.ws/hosted_files/icann58copenhagen2017/39/Transcript%20IGO%20Red%20Cross%2011%20March%20Copenhagen.pdf[schd.ws]
>>>(transcript);
>>><https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__audio.icann.org_meetings_cph58_cph58-2DOPEN-2D2017-2D03-2D11-2DT0655-2Dhallc14-2DoQgDtIEBJGGxfDtpEgbCTflp7NUkfeeE-2Den.m3u&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DJ69mAe-idEhpAMF1nu2x6c2w3xl7xb5cjS_7sB4h6Y&m=yaJNcfh31vRfFrojIqOxU1z_2Wnf3Gxn2usmZVzs8Ss&s=bM2TXLwMgdR9GrSjbc6RAIPSV-TCTt_3nGNPtXDgL3I&e=>http://audio.icann.org/meetings/cph58/cph58-OPEN-2017-03-11-T0655-hallc14-oQgDtIEBJGGxfDtpEgbCTflp7NUkfeeE-en.m3u[audio.icann.org]
>>>(recording)
>>>
>>>Thanks and cheers
>>>Mary
>>>
>>>
>>>From: Mary Wong <<mailto:mary.wong at icann.org>mary.wong at icann.org>
>>>Date: Friday, June 9, 2017 at 01:52
>>>To: "
>>><mailto:christopher.lamb17 at gmail.com>christopher.lamb17 at gmail.com"
>>><
>>><mailto:christopher.lamb17 at gmail.com>christopher.lamb17 at gmail.com>,
>>>"<mailto:gnso-igo-ingo at icann.org>gnso-igo-ingo at icann.org
>>>" <<mailto:gnso-igo-ingo at icann.org>gnso-igo-ingo at icann.org >
>>>Subject: Scheduling the first meeting of this
>>>reconvened PDP Working Group on Red Cross names
>>>
>>>Dear all,
>>>
>>>Thank you to everyone who has responded, and
>>>for those who have not, we will be grateful if
>>>you can let us know whether you will be
>>>available to participate in the consultation
>>>with the GNSO Council concerning a proposed
>>>amendment to the policy recommendation
>>>developed by this Working Group in relation to
>>>Red Cross National Society and international movement names.
>>>
>>>Following consultations with Thomas Rickert,
>>>the Chair of this Working Group, and the GNSO
>>>Council leadership, staff will be scheduling
>>>the first call on this topic for Wednesday 14
>>>June at 1800 UTC. Please look out for a
>>>calendar invitation and call-in details shortly.
>>>
>>>For those who are intending to participate in
>>>this reconvened Working Group but who cannot
>>>make that first call, please note that the
>>>call will be recorded and transcribed, as is
>>>the case for all GNSO Working Group discussions and meetings.
>>>
>>>Thanks and cheers
>>>Mary
>>>
>>>From: "
>>><mailto:christopher.lamb17 at gmail.com>christopher.lamb17 at gmail.com"
>>>< <mailto:christopher.lamb17 at gmail.com>christopher.lamb17 at gmail.com>
>>>Date: Thursday, June 8, 2017 at 11:20
>>>To: Mary Wong
>>><<mailto:mary.wong at icann.org>mary.wong at icann.org>,
>>>"<mailto:gnso-igo-ingo at icann.org>gnso-igo-ingo at icann.org
>>>" <<mailto:gnso-igo-ingo at icann.org>gnso-igo-ingo at icann.org >
>>>Subject: [Ext] Re: [Gnso-igo-ingo] PLEASE
>>>READ: Reconvening this Working Group - a message from GNSO Council Chairs
>>>
>>>Dear Mary,
>>>
>>>Thanks very much for this. I̢۪m not sure
>>>that I will have a lotlot to contribute beyond
>>>my support for the consensus, but I̢۪m happy to be part of the action!
>>>All the best
>>>
>>>Chris
>>>
>>>Christopher Lamb
>>>43/27 Flinders Lane
>>>Melbourne 3000
>>><tel:+61%20423%20099%20121>+61 423 099 121 (mobile and WhatsApp)
>>><tel:+61%203%209942%206679>+61 3 9942 6679 (fixed)
>>>Skype: clamb17
>>>
>>>From: Mary Wong
>>>Sent: Monday, June 5, 2017 20:03
>>>To: <mailto:gnso-igo-ingo at icann.org>gnso-igo-ingo at icann.org
>>>Subject: [Gnso-igo-ingo] PLEASE READ:
>>>Reconvening this Working Group - a message from GNSO Council Chairs
>>>
>>>Dear members of the 2012-2013 Working Group on
>>>IGO-INGO Protections in All gTLDs,
>>>
>>>On behalf of the current GNSO Council Chairs,
>>>I write to ask that you read the attached
>>>letter from them, relating to a reconvening of
>>>our Working Group for the purpose of
>>>consultation about a possible modification of
>>>our initial policy recommendation concerning
>>>certain Red Cross National Society and international movement names.
>>>
>>>As requested in the letter, the GNSO Council
>>>will greatly appreciate your reply to this
>>>email list, indicating if you will be
>>>available to participate in that consultation, by Friday 9 June 2017.
>>>
>>> Thanks and cheers
>>> Mary
>>>
>>>
>>> Mary Wong
>>> Senior Policy Director & Special Adviser for Strategic Policy Planning
>>> Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN)
>>> Email: <mailto:mary.wong at icann.org>mary.wong at icann.org
>>> Telephone: <tel:(603)%20574-4889>+1-603-5744889
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11/21/13, 15:48, "
>>> <mailto:owner-gnso-igo-ingo at icann.org>owner-gnso-igo-ingo at icann.org
>>> on behalf of Thomas Rickert" <
>>> <mailto:owner-gnso-igo-ingo at icann.org>owner-gnso-igo-ingo at icann.org
>>> on behalf of <mailto:rickert at anwaelte.de>rickert at anwaelte.de> wrote:
>>>
>>> All,
>>> as you will have noted, the GNSO Council
>>> has unanimously adopted the consensus recommendations made by our WG.
>>>
>>> The collaborative spirit, the timeliness
>>> of our work, the time spent by all of you and
>>> the fact that we came to consensus on many
>>> points despite the diverse views represented
>>> in the WG was very much applauded by Council
>>> members, Board members and individuals that spoke up.
>>>
>>> It is my pleasure to pass on this
>>> commendation to all of you and I would like
>>> to personally thank all of you again as well
>>> as Berry, Mary and Marika from ICANN staff for their outstanding work.
>>>
>>> I hope that this e-mail list will
>>> continue to exist until such time when we
>>> know whether the Board will accept the
>>> recommendations and when it comes to
>>> implementing an IRT (Implementation Review Team).
>>>
>>> All the best,
>>> Thomas
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>----------
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Gnso-igo-ingo mailing list
>>><mailto:Gnso-igo-ingo at icann.org>Gnso-igo-ingo at icann.org
>>>https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-igo-ingo
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>>>https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-igo-ingo
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