[gnso-igo-wt] IGO WT - Preparation for our first call on 22 Feb at 1600 UTC

Kris Seeburn seeburn.k at gmail.com
Tue Feb 16 08:18:50 UTC 2021


Dear Chris,

For on the record precision, the different suggestion are mine and does not engage the NCSG and its community by any way. So I suggest that these views be not considered nonetheless even be discussed.

However, suggestions I make is for staff to revisit the wordings in the document and take out ambiguities in it and last precision is to still engage WIPO and regional Government bodies such as AU, EU etc., as supporting partner as ICANN for me and again not an NCSG view is not a court of law to decide since it might engage us in a very tedious track. 

So, for the record, my views are personal and to be not though or considered apart from the suggestion to review the wording content of the document and in as going forward in a plea to move the onus to the organisations that have those responsibility. We are not to fulfill the act of being party and judge. We are just a provider of service we provide them only when the paperwork is provided and full stop and the onus is handed back to the proper organisations to sit through decide and advise.

That should keep our focus as narrow as possible. Again not a view from the NCSG but a way forward to cut down on more responsibility which should not be ours.

As to the other matters I suggest it was never raised let it work the way it is as this is none of our business. ICANN / GAC can decide by themselves what to do. Again these are my views and be assured will not be raised or discussed less talked about for better interest of others. NCSG is consisted of three persons and I was looking at the other representation. And I think I’m out of line completely. 

So again I re-iterate that if possible to really ask staff to narrow down the WT role and use proper wordings as if I take in in some casses we faced at the HAGUE these wordings could be used and argued in any court of law where we mind end up responsible.

Cya all on Friday 22nd. I personally present my apologies to the group for leading us out of context.

Kris.

> On 15 Feb 2021, at 16:44, Chris Disspain <chris at disspain.uk> wrote:
> 
> Hello Kris,
> 
> Thank you for your email below and the one sent before it. 
> 
> I agree with Paul that you do, indeed, raise interesting questions. In fact, some of the issues you raise go to the very core of the way in which management of the domain name space is structured, how far down the chain of domain levels one should seek to manage or to set policy for and numerous other matters of of principle. Were we able to gather at an ICANN meeting I would, without doubt, enjoy at least one long discussion within you (in a bar perhaps) on these matters and how to take them forwards. 
> 
> However, I also agree with Paul that most of what you discuss in your 2 notes is outside of the scope of this WT which has a very specific and narrow mandate. 
> 
> I look forward to our first call in a week and the opportunity for us as a team to reach a clear understanding of the scope and boundaries of this WT.
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Chris Disspain
> chris at disspain.uk
> 
> +44 7880 642456
> 
> 
> 
>> On 14 Feb 2021, at 13:54, McGrady, Paul D. <PMcGrady at taftlaw.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks Kris.
>>  
>> All, Kris raises many interesting questions in his email.  However, I can’t help but wonder whether or not much/most of the issues are outside the scope of this PDP, which I thought was to be quite narrow.  No doubt, Chris will provide some guidance on our kickoff call.
>>  
>> Best,
>> Paul
>>  
>>  
>> Taft /
>>  
>> Paul D. McGrady / Partner
>> Taft Stettinius & Hollister LLP
>> 111 E. Wacker Drive, Suite 2800
>> Chicago, Illinois 60601-3713
>> Tel: 312.527.4000 • Fax: 312.754.2354
>> Direct: 312.836.4094 • Cell: 312.882.5020
>> www.taftlaw.com / PMcGrady at taftlaw.com
>> 
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> 
>> This message may contain information that is attorney-client privileged, attorney work product or otherwise confidential. If you are not an intended recipient, use and disclosure of this message are prohibited. If you received this transmission in error, please notify the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message and any attachments.
>> 
>> From: gnso-igo-wt <gnso-igo-wt-bounces at icann.org> On Behalf Of Kris Seeburn
>> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2021 9:27 PM
>> To: Chris Disspain <chris at disspain.uk>
>> Cc: gnso-secs at icann.org; gnso-igo-wt at icann.org
>> Subject: Re: [gnso-igo-wt] IGO WT - Preparation for our first call on 22 Feb at 1600 UTC
>>  
>> [EXTERNAL MESSAGE] 
>> Hi again Chris,,
>>  
>> I forgot in line on domain names there is a bigger issue that does not fall under domain names specifically but the dark web issue which goes under an IANA issue for IP address. We know that about more than 85 to 90 % of the dark web business is stacked under IP address and we all know what sort of businesses happen in that sphere commonly called “bulletproof hosting”. The affirmation talks by itself am sure GAC also has a big headache with this issue.
>>  
>> I do not know what staff of ICANN thinks but I would say there needs to be an extension to that issue since GAC and of course ICANN despite now suggestively not involved in this matter is an issue since the allocation of IP Addressing has a major impact on the world , all counties are as much involved as we are. 
>>  
>> I did a work on bullet proof hosting and the research came out very damming for the public that uses internet at large. I can cite blatantly the solar wings attack which had a caveat to it whereby information was sent to a bullet proof hosting site, where no one knows since it was a hopping IP address and still is. Who would the government look to to readily address some of these issues, loads of ipv4 addresses were used none was an ipv6 track. We perhaps need to ensure this is also in a framework... it needs addressing not talking that most of the web is dark web then the issue is greater as well. 
>>  
>> I did not see it in the document sent by staff but coming from also having been a board member of an RIR , i have problems with that issue. We had worked on pdp process for addressing the issue of allocation of Ip addressing but since IANA  had a set procedure which the 5 RIR use as basis like the Bible to allocate space it passes through the test that is in place. 
>>  
>> So the question from me to staff is whether that issue is catered for under this charter or will be allowed and managed differently as one thing to bear in mind is that the search starts with a domain name then you , get spam sites, survey sites, hacked sites or plain Ip redirection to the bulletproof hosting site which cannot br tracked and if you mange to track the Ip the firm hosting that particular site would just point to another IP address. 
>>  
>> This is legally an issue that needs addressing as well, I’ve raised this issue before and it went into a rabbit whole as if no one cared. But I do since blockchain has been put in place a lot of business are using it for anonymously fraudulently get to people as well. 
>>  
>> So my question tests on the table would we be seeking at ensuring some framework that is definitely required since it concerns. GAC as well as the International Court as well, because there is no support and nothing for protection as The Hague has pointed and many countries have also pointed out ... then who is responsible in the short or long term?
>>  
>> It’s a question to ICANN staff as a point of clarity and an issue to address. As much as I said that the charter document looks fine but ambiguities and other issues are being overlooked unless I am mistaken in my thought process. As a past board member of an RIR I still have the decisions and discussions since am subscribed to it. Not seen that issue addressed. I am not saying we take up the task but it starts with us and drills down to the Ip addresses as we know very clearly, can be separated but I think we have part responsibility to this as well. 
>>  
>> I guess staff will respond if I’m wrong, and being addressed in a different forum. 
>>  
>> Kris
>> 
>> 
>> On 11 Feb 2021, at 18:25, Chris Disspain <chris at disspain.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Greetings, 
>>  
>> Thank you all for your patience. We now have our first call scheduled for 22 February and, as promised, I attach a briefing paper with thanks to Mary Wong and Steve Chan for all the work to put it together. I hope you find it useful and please send any questions or clarification requests to this list.
>>  
>> You will see from the briefing paper that the scope and boundaries of the work of this group is very limited and I would like to specifically draw your attention to the paragraph at the top of page 3 which states:
>>  
>> "As such, the Work Track may wish to consider an early discussion as to the likelihood of it reaching consensus on an appropriate policy solution within the above framework that is also likely to be acceptable to the GNSO Council and the GAC, such as to be a solution that can be adopted by the Board as being in the best interests of ICANN or the ICANN community (as required under the Bylaws)."
>>  
>> It would help in our work if each of us could consider possible policy solutions that we think fit within the scope and boundaries provided by the GNSO and bring those ideas to our first meeting. We can then list of those possible solutions, add others that may arise in the group discussions and then test them for group consensus and consider the likelihood of wider acceptance. At this early brainstorm stage, there are no bad ideas, only useful contributions to get our work started.
>>  
>> I am very much looking forward to working with you all and will see you on zoom on the 22nd.
>>  
>>  
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Chris Disspain
>> chris at disspain.uk
>> 
>> +44 7880 642456
>> 
>> 
>>  
>>  
>>  
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