[gnso-igo-wt] Updated text (reconciling suggestions from Alexandra and Jay) plus a staff comment on the IGOs' chart

McGrady, Paul D. PMcGrady at taftlaw.com
Tue Sep 14 15:52:09 UTC 2021


So, I have been trying to follow along this email string.  Looks like we have resolved what we can for today.  I’m looking forward to seeing how this all looks in the cold, hard light of public comment.  ☺  I think we have done a good job here.  Now, I’m off to the IPC to convince them that we have.  Have a great day everyone.  I am proud of us – especially the civility on our calls and on our list.

Best,
Paul





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From: gnso-igo-wt <gnso-igo-wt-bounces at icann.org> On Behalf Of Chris Disspain via gnso-igo-wt
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2021 9:16 AM
To: Alexandra.EXCOFFIER-NOSOV at oecd.org; Jay Chapman <jay at digimedia.com>
Cc: gnso-igo-wt at icann.org
Subject: Re: [gnso-igo-wt] Updated text (reconciling suggestions from Alexandra and Jay) plus a staff comment on the IGOs' chart

[EXTERNAL MESSAGE]
Marvellous!

Well done all but especially Mary.

Cheers,

Chris Disspain
chris at disspain.uk<mailto:chris at disspain.uk>

+44 7880 642456

[cid:image001.png at 01D7A956.8E198E00]


On 14 Sep 2021, at 15:09, <Alexandra.EXCOFFIER-NOSOV at oecd.org<mailto:Alexandra.EXCOFFIER-NOSOV at oecd.org>> <Alexandra.EXCOFFIER-NOSOV at oecd.org<mailto:Alexandra.EXCOFFIER-NOSOV at oecd.org>> wrote:

Thanks Mary, OK with your proposal, with the deletion of “judicial”.  Arbitration is not technically a judicial process

From: Jay Chapman <jay at digimedia.com<mailto:jay at digimedia.com>>
Sent: 14 September, 2021 4:02 PM
To: Mary Wong <mary.wong at icann.org<mailto:mary.wong at icann.org>>
Cc: EXCOFFIER-NOSOV Alexandra, SGE/LEG <Alexandra.EXCOFFIER-NOSOV at oecd.org<mailto:Alexandra.EXCOFFIER-NOSOV at oecd.org>>; chris at disspain.uk<mailto:chris at disspain.uk>; gnso-igo-wt at icann.org<mailto:gnso-igo-wt at icann.org>
Subject: Re: Updated text (reconciling suggestions from Alexandra and Jay) plus a staff comment on the IGOs' chart

Yes - thanks, Mary!

Sincerely,
Jay Chapman


On Tue, Sep 14, 2021 at 8:58 AM Mary Wong <mary.wong at icann.org<mailto:mary.wong at icann.org>> wrote:
Hello everyone,

As Chris has requested, staff has tried to reconcile the language and concerns voiced by Alexandra and Jay for the following sentence; certain parts of the original text from the draft that was circulated late last week have been deleted and new replacement wording added in red. We suggest removing references either way to fairness, to allow this group to proceed with publishing the Initial Report today for Public Comment. As noted previously, this is not the Final Report and the EPDP team will have the opportunity to discuss and revise the text during your analysis of Public Comments.

“Some EPDP team members believe that preserving the option for a registrant to go to arbitration following an unsuccessful attempt to invoke judicial consideration of its case represents a “second bite at the apple”, would result in a much more costly and inefficient process, while other members thought that retaining the registrant’s ability to proceed to arbitration following its choice choose to go to court as an initial option was important to ensure that the registrant can seek judicial consideration of the merits of its case fairness as well as compliance with the GNSO Council’s instructions.”

As for the chart, we already have a reference in that paragraph that indicates the chart was submitted by IGO members of the EPDP team. If it will make things clearer, we can add a footnote to clarify that the chart is not being presented as an agreed depiction by the full EPDP team. We can also add a similar footnote to the URS chart that we are inserting, to clarify that it was prepared by staff and should not be read as something that the EPDP team has approved. Will that work?

Thanks and cheers
Steve, Berry & Mary

From: gnso-igo-wt <gnso-igo-wt-bounces at icann.org<mailto:gnso-igo-wt-bounces at icann.org>> on behalf of "Alexandra.EXCOFFIER-NOSOV--- via gnso-igo-wt" <gnso-igo-wt at icann.org<mailto:gnso-igo-wt at icann.org>>
Reply-To: "Alexandra.EXCOFFIER-NOSOV at oecd.org<mailto:Alexandra.EXCOFFIER-NOSOV at oecd.org>" <Alexandra.EXCOFFIER-NOSOV at oecd.org<mailto:Alexandra.EXCOFFIER-NOSOV at oecd.org>>
Date: Tuesday, September 14, 2021 at 9:15 AM
To: "jay at digimedia.com<mailto:jay at digimedia.com>" <jay at digimedia.com<mailto:jay at digimedia.com>>, "chris at disspain.uk<mailto:chris at disspain.uk>" <chris at disspain.uk<mailto:chris at disspain.uk>>
Cc: "gnso-igo-wt at icann.org<mailto:gnso-igo-wt at icann.org>" <gnso-igo-wt at icann.org<mailto:gnso-igo-wt at icann.org>>
Subject: Re: [gnso-igo-wt] FOR REVIEW: Updated Draft Initial Report (Re: FOR DISCUSSION: Updated draft preliminary recommendations and options)

I seriously object to indicating which position is in line with GNSO Council’s instructions.  That’s up to the GNSO Council to determine, not up to Jay.

Also, neither position takes away the registrant’s right to go to court, whereas the text implies that only the second position ensures this right or that only this option is fair.  Also arbitration is not “judicial review”.  Finally, the edits I proposed were symmetrical, as to what happens if the court does not hear the case and I added the part regarding merits of the case as I knew that it was important to Jay.

From: Jay Chapman <jay at digimedia.com<mailto:jay at digimedia.com>>
Sent: 14 September, 2021 2:54 PM
To: Chris Disspain <chris at disspain.uk<mailto:chris at disspain.uk>>
Cc: EXCOFFIER-NOSOV Alexandra, SGE/LEG <Alexandra.EXCOFFIER-NOSOV at oecd.org<mailto:Alexandra.EXCOFFIER-NOSOV at oecd.org>>; gnso-igo-wt at icann.org<mailto:gnso-igo-wt at icann.org>
Subject: Re: [gnso-igo-wt] FOR REVIEW: Updated Draft Initial Report (Re: FOR DISCUSSION: Updated draft preliminary recommendations and options)

Good morning, Chris and everyone.

I do object to some of Alexandra's suggested edits in that particular sentence:

First, the suggested changes to the back half of this sentence water down the point that was put forth and that staff had accurately tried to state. To focus and be even more clear on the position, it should read as follows:
“…while other members thought that retaining the registrant’s ability to choose to go to court as an initial option was important to comply with the GNSO Council’s instructions (that the registrant obtain judicial review) and ensure fairness (that there would be a decision on the merits).”

Second, the highlighting of the chart reaffirms its confusing and one-sided nature. Seeking neutrality in this report, why does the chart not indicate, for example, that an IGO might lose at a particular point and not take things any further?  Another example:  the chart makes clear that there are several ways for an IGO to prevail, but only one direct way a registrant could prevail - if the IGO waives its immunity, which is not right or accurate (and the other, seemingly indirect way for a registrant to prevail is confusing as to where it originates from).

Finally, the edits also reemphasize the phrase “an unsuccessful attempt to invoke judicial consideration of its case” is also inappropriately leading, implying that a registrant’s protection of its domain from being taken is a hopeless folly.  That's also not right or accurate.  It's not an "attempt" - it's the registrant's right, and the registrant seeks a substantive determination, not just vague consideration.  As such I suggest that phrase (here and anywhere else in the report) be changed to the following:
"a court's decision to not hear the merits of its case"

(I'll resubmit suggestions on the wraparound separately.)

Sincerely,
Jay Chapman


On Tue, Sep 14, 2021 at 4:26 AM Chris Disspain via gnso-igo-wt <gnso-igo-wt at icann.org<mailto:gnso-igo-wt at icann.org>> wrote:
Thank you Alex.

I agree that your wording accurately reflects the 2 sides of the discussion and so (subject to ant strong objections) suggest we incorporate it.

Cheers,

Chris Disspain
chris at disspain.uk<mailto:chris at disspain.uk>

+44 7880 642456

<image001.png>



On 13 Sep 2021, at 17:37, Alexandra.EXCOFFIER-NOSOV--- via gnso-igo-wt <gnso-igo-wt at icann.org<mailto:gnso-igo-wt at icann.org>> wrote:

Dear Mary, all,

As mentioned during the call, I’ve only reviewed the track changes in the full Initial Report document and have the following issue at the bottom of page 14.  It currently reads :

“Some EPDP team members believe that preserving the option for a registrant to go to arbitration following an unsuccessful attempt to invoke judicial consideration of its case represents a “second bite at the apple”, while other members thought that retaining the registrant’s ability to choose to go to court as an initial option was important to ensure fairness as well as compliance with the GNSO Council’s instructions.”

This is quite leading language it makes it sounds that only the second option is fair, preserves the registrant’s right to go to court and is in line with GNSO instructions.  I would propose rather:

Some EPDP team members believe that preserving the option for a registrant to go to arbitration following an unsuccessful attempt to invoke judicial consideration of its case represents an unfair, inefficient and costly “second bite at the apple” [see above chart], while other members thought that retaining the registrant’s ability to choose to go to arbitration following an unsuccessful attempt to invoke judicial consideration of its case was important to ensure fairness and to have a determination on the merits of the case. […]

Thank you,
Alex


From: gnso-igo-wt <gnso-igo-wt-bounces at icann.org<mailto:gnso-igo-wt-bounces at icann.org>> On Behalf Of BECKHAM Brian via gnso-igo-wt
Sent: 13 September, 2021 4:46 PM
To: gnso-igo-wt at icann.org<mailto:gnso-igo-wt at icann.org>
Subject: Re: [gnso-igo-wt] FOR REVIEW: Updated Draft Initial Report (Re: FOR DISCUSSION: Updated draft preliminary recommendations and options)

Hi Mary – a few super minor textual catches:

At 1.1 – two “the” and two periods.

At 1.2.2 – extra space between “from” and “judicial”.

Speak soon on the rest!

Brian

From: gnso-igo-wt <gnso-igo-wt-bounces at icann.org<mailto:gnso-igo-wt-bounces at icann.org>> On Behalf Of Mary Wong via gnso-igo-wt
Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2021 1:06 AM
To: gnso-igo-wt at icann.org<mailto:gnso-igo-wt at icann.org>
Subject: [gnso-igo-wt] FOR REVIEW: Updated Draft Initial Report (Re: FOR DISCUSSION: Updated draft preliminary recommendations and options)

Hello again everyone,

Following up on the below, please find attached a redlined and clean copy of the latest version of the draft Initial Report. For ease of review, we’ve accepted most of the previous redlined comments (including from Brian’s markup of a few weeks ago) and highlighted new text where these came out of action items from the past two weeks of discussions. You’ll see also that we’ve not yet included the actual text of the draft recommendations in Section 2, as we understand that the main priority – especially on the call this coming Monday – is to finalize the recommendations text (including options for Public Comment.)  Staff will therefore incorporate/paste the final text of the preliminary recommendations and options after Monday’s call into a finalized Initial Report that we can post for Public Comment.

As such, for Monday’s call, we anticipate focusing initially on the draft recommendations text (as sent out yesterday, below).

Thanks and cheers
Steve, Berry & Mary

From: Mary Wong <mary.wong at icann.org<mailto:mary.wong at icann.org>>
Date: Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 3:46 PM
To: "gnso-igo-wt at icann.org<mailto:gnso-igo-wt at icann.org>" <gnso-igo-wt at icann.org<mailto:gnso-igo-wt at icann.org>>
Subject: FOR DISCUSSION: Updated draft preliminary recommendations and options

Dear all,

Please find attached a clean, updated version of the draft preliminary recommendations that this group is attempting to finalize for Public Comment next week, as well as the URS process flow chart that was displayed during Tuesday’s call. We hope the revised text captures the agreements and feedback from this past Tuesday’s call. As previously, to avoid “competing” texts, please do not send a redline/markup of the document; instead, please feel free to post comments and questions to this list ahead of Monday’s call.

As you review the updated text, staff hopes that the following notes are helpful:

  *   We have combined the Mutual Jurisdiction exemption for the UDRP and URS into a single recommendation (which is now Recommendation #3).
  *   We have attempted to highlight the options under consideration even more by labeling them Option 1 and Option 2 (for the UDRP and URS, in what is now Recommendation #4 & #5, respectively.) We have also used yellow highlights in these square-bracketed options to indicate the differences between the two options in question.
  *   All other changes, updates and additions have been indicated via Comments balloons.
  *   We have clarified that the question regarding applicable law is not an option to mutual agreement but a possible additional step (in what is now Recommendation #6.)

For the URS process flow chart, we plan on making any necessary updates once the EPDP team has agreed on the text of the recommendations, prior to insertion into the Initial Report.

Staff is currently updating the draft Initial Report to reflect the latest changes and agreements. We will do our best to circulate an updated version as soon as feasible, prior to Monday’s call.

Thanks and cheers
Steve, Berry & Mary


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