[Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Please respond - straw poll on Early Reveal Process for Adjectival Form of Country Names - deadline Tuesday 10 September at 14:00 UTC

Marita Moll mmoll at ca.inter.net
Tue Sep 10 13:42:48 UTC 2019


Dear all: In this very distributed discussion which takes part on 
various platforms (on-line meetings, lists and sometime f2f) and, in 
keeping with the multitstakeholder model, includes many people of 
varying language proficiencies --be it second language issues, different 
cultural backgrounds and ways of engaging, and varying professional 
backgrounds (technical/legal,community, etc),  I believe a straw poll 
like this is entirely appropriate, especially to bring out some of the 
voices that are listening but not finding and easy way into this discussion.

Marita

On 9/10/2019 8:36 AM, Alexander Schubert wrote:
>
> Dear Paul,
>
> Please have the courtesy to quote in context. You quote “example 
> geo-communities” THREE times when the context was “needs of for 
> examplegeo-communities”.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Alexander
>
> *From:*McGrady, Paul D. [mailto:PMcGrady at taftlaw.com]
> *Sent:* Dienstag, 10. September 2019 14:58
> *To:* alexander at schubert.berlin; gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 at icann.org
> *Subject:* RE: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Please respond - straw poll on 
> Early Reveal Process for Adjectival Form of Country Names - deadline 
> Tuesday 10 September at 14:00 UTC
>
> Thanks Alexander.
>
> I’m not sure what fossil fuels have to do with ICANN, and I think it 
> attempts to paint those who aren’t for special geo rights (and are for 
> free speech rights) as the equivalent of the “evil fossil fuel 
> lobbyist” and (of course) paints the extremely small group pushing for 
> special protections for geo terms as the heroic “environmentalist” -- 
> so I won’t respond to that.
>
> As for the second assertion, it sounds like you are disappointed with 
> the outcomes of WT5 on the basis that “example geo-communities” 
> (whatever those undefined entities may be) were to be accorded 
> “especially [special] protect [protections]” for their needs and 
> “fundamental rights” (whatever undefined, and to date unidentified, 
> fundamental rights those may be).  I have seen nothing in ICANN’s 
> bylaws that would support the idea that ICANN has an obligation to 
> ignore the rest of the multistakeholder community and dole out special 
> rights to “example geo-communities.”  Can you point me to the section 
> in the bylaws that supports your notion that “example geo-communities” 
> should be given preferential status in this multistakeholder process?
>
> Best,
>
> Paul
>
> *From:*Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 <gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces at icann.org 
> <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces at icann.org>> *On Behalf Of 
> *Alexander Schubert
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 10, 2019 6:26 AM
> *To:* gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 at icann.org <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 at icann.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Please respond - straw poll on 
> Early Reveal Process for Adjectival Form of Country Names - deadline 
> Tuesday 10 September at 14:00 UTC
>
> Paul,
>
> In my opinion you are conflating constituency participation with 
> legitimate interests:
>
> If there was a hearing to protect the environment and you had 99 
> fossil fuel lobbyists and one environmentalist: You could always claim 
> that “close to 100% of the participants objected the suggested 
> protection measures”; even when it only served the fossil fuel 
> industry and would create harm for the general public.
>
> ICANN has the mission to expand the DNS in a meaningful way that 
> serves the interest of the global Internet Community – and especially 
> protects the fundamental rights and needs of for example 
> geo-communities. I certainly do not see that reflected in WT5.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Alexander
>
> *From:*Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 
> [mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces at icann.org] *On Behalf Of *McGrady, 
> Paul D.
> *Sent:* Dienstag, 10. September 2019 06:01
> *To:* Justine Chew <justine.chew at gmail.com 
> <mailto:justine.chew at gmail.com>>; gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 at icann.org 
> <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 at icann.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Please respond - straw poll on 
> Early Reveal Process for Adjectival Form of Country Names - deadline 
> Tuesday 10 September at 14:00 UTC
>
> Thanks Justine.  I appreciate your point of view and your taking the 
> time to put it on the list.  While you and I may have a different 
> perspective on what constitutes a “no consensus” outcome on the calls 
> and the list, I do heartily respect the vigor with which you have been 
> participating in these discussions and the genteel tone you always 
> have in your posts and interventions.
>
> Best,
>
> Paul
>
> *From:*Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 <gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces at icann.org 
> <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces at icann.org>> *On Behalf Of *Justine 
> Chew
> *Sent:* Monday, September 9, 2019 9:41 PM
> *To:* gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 at icann.org <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 at icann.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Please respond - straw poll on 
> Early Reveal Process for Adjectival Form of Country Names - deadline 
> Tuesday 10 September at 14:00 UTC
>
> Paul,
>
> I respectfully disagree with your comment about the answer being "no" 
> on both the calls and the list.
>
> It is for the co-leads to decipher the level of support for the 
> question at hand (or any question, for that matter) and I think they 
> have not been able to do so either way with all of WT5 (beyond the 
> folks who have or have not been able to attend the calls) and 
> are attempting to do so with this straw poll.
>
> Since WT5 discussions are available to anyone on the list (at least), 
> I don't think it's fair to say we are "/now asked again in a vacuum/" 
> to express either support or opposition to the proposal whether to 
> recommend an Early Reveal Process for Adjectival Form of Country Names 
> or not.
>
>
> Regards,
> Justine
> -----
>
> On Tue, 10 Sep 2019 at 04:46, McGrady, Paul D. <PMcGrady at taftlaw.com 
> <mailto:PMcGrady at taftlaw.com>> wrote:
>
>     Thanks Martin.  While I understand the desire to give voice to
>     those who did not attend the call, it is important to remember
>     that those who would be responding to the straw poll will be doing
>     so without the benefit of having attended the calls and having
>     heard the very detailed back and forth and the reasons why we got
>     to stalemate on the calls (unless, of course they would commit to
>     listening to the call recordings in advance of responding to the
>     straw poll, but there is no request or mechanism for this within
>     the straw poll).  As mentioned before, I think excising this one
>     item out of its context and asking for folks who may not have the
>     benefit of the context to indicate their position is stretching us
>     very far down and really calls into question why we have the calls
>     in the first place and not simply do all of this by listserv and
>     then “straw polls” which are not consensus calls or any other
>     mechanism I am aware of under GNSO operating procedure.  I’m with
>     Robin on this – it just looks like the question is going to keep
>     being asked (on the calls – answer “no”) and asked (on the list –
>     answer “no”) and now asked again in a vacuum (via a straw poll)
>     until the WT finally comes up with the “correct” answer that a
>     narrow group want to see here.
>
>     Best,
>
>     Paul
>
>     *From:*Martin Sutton <martin at brandregistrygroup.org
>     <mailto:martin at brandregistrygroup.org>>
>     *Sent:* Monday, September 9, 2019 3:37 PM
>     *To:* McGrady, Paul D. <PMcGrady at taftlaw.com
>     <mailto:PMcGrady at taftlaw.com>>; Robin Gross <robin at ipjustice.org
>     <mailto:robin at ipjustice.org>>; Mike Rodenbaugh
>     <mike at rodenbaugh.com <mailto:mike at rodenbaugh.com>>
>     *Cc:* gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 at icann.org
>     <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 at icann.org>
>     *Subject:* Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Please respond - straw poll
>     on Early Reveal Process for Adjectival Form of Country Names -
>     deadline Tuesday 10 September at 14:00 UTC
>
>     Dear Paul, Robin and Mike,
>
>     On behalf of the WT5 co-leads, I wanted to reiterate the purpose
>     of the straw poll in relation to the group's discussion around the
>     specific suggestion for adjectival forms.
>
>     We have had numerous discussions which helped develop and progress
>     a focused proposal which recently appeared to be gaining
>     acceptance from different (and often opposing) parts of WT5. We
>     note, however, that this was over a number of weeks when the
>     participation on the calls varied, particularly over the holiday
>     season and last week's call illustrated an array of positions as
>     we tried to close off the topic.
>
>     As a result, the co-leads decided to conduct a straw-poll to help
>     gauge whether there was interest amongst the whole WT5 to pursue
>     this any further.  This would allow those that had not been able
>     to join last week's meeting and other recent calls to have a say,
>     as well as others that may not feel comfortable speaking directly
>     on the calls.
>
>     I appreciate the comments you have included in your emails but
>     would ask that you also submit your response via the straw poll,
>     if not already done so, so we can determine if there is a
>     possibility of the group coming to an agreement to adopt this
>     proposal as a recommendation.
>
>     Kind regards,
>
>     Martin Sutton
>
>     Olga Cavalli
>
>     Annebeth Lange
>
>     Javier Rua
>
>
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>
>         On 9 Sep 2019, at 18:16, Mike Rodenbaugh <mike at rodenbaugh.com
>         <mailto:mike at rodenbaugh.com>> wrote:
>
>         Agreed.
>
>
>         Mike Rodenbaugh
>
>         RODENBAUGH LAW
>
>         tel/fax:  +1.415.738.8087
>
>         http://rodenbaugh.law <http://rodenbaugh.law/>
>
>         On Mon, Sep 9, 2019 at 9:32 AM Robin Gross
>         <robin at ipjustice.org <mailto:robin at ipjustice.org>> wrote:
>
>             Paul has summed up my concerns on this poll as well.  Is
>             the plan to just keep asking the question until we get a
>             different answer?  Because that is what it looks like now.
>
>             Thanks,
>
>             Robin
>
>                 On Sep 9, 2019, at 6:10 AM, McGrady, Paul D.
>                 <PMcGrady at taftlaw.com <mailto:PMcGrady at taftlaw.com>>
>                 wrote:
>
>                 Co-chairs,
>
>                 I don’t understand the purpose of this straw poll.  It
>                 was pretty clear on our last call that there was no
>                 stomach for any further expansion of geo term special
>                 rights. While I did try find a way forward, there were
>                 just too many slippery slope tack-ons and too many
>                 voices, including the USG’s (representing 330 million
>                 people) indicating no interest.  So, what is the
>                 purpose of the poll? Is it meant to revive the
>                 conversation?  We were told on the call that the
>                 conversation is closed.
>
>                 Also, there are no qualifications within the poll.  If
>                 it said “can you accept this proposal and will stop
>                 pushing for other lists, etc.” and/or “can you accept
>                 this proposal and agree not tack-on slippery slope
>                 additions such as extended time for governments to
>                 object” or that sort of thing, the poll might be
>                 interesting (assuming we re-open something that was
>                 declared closed on the list, which I don’t think we
>                 should be doing).
>
>                 I don’t think it is fair to excise out one concept
>                 without closing off all the other wish list ideas
>                 presented by others.  My concern is that the purpose
>                 of the poll is just to create a new baseline upon
>                 which all others can then tack-on all the other
>                 overreaching ideas and wish lists they want.
>
>                 Best,
>
>                 Paul
>
>                 This message may contain information that is
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>                 error, please notify the sender by reply e-mail and
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>
>                 *From:*Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5
>                 <gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces at icann.org
>                 <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5-bounces at icann.org>>*On
>                 Behalf Of*Emily Barabas
>                 *Sent:*Friday, September 6, 2019 5:06 AM
>                 *To:*gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 at icann.org
>                 <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5 at icann.org>
>                 *Subject:*[Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt5] Please respond - straw
>                 poll on Early Reveal Process for Adjectival Form of
>                 Country Names - deadline Tuesday 10 September at 14:00 UTC
>
>                 Sent on behalf of the WT5 Co-Leaders:
>
>                 Dear Work Track 5 members,
>
>                 On the call yesterday, we discussed whether it might
>                 be possible to come to an agreement to make a
>                 recommendation regarding an Early Reveal Process for
>                 Adjectival Form of Country Names. To gather input from
>                 all members, including those who were not able to join
>                 the call yesterday, the co-leaders would like to hold
>                 a straw poll to get a sense of the different
>                 perspectives. Note that this is not a vote and will
>                 not be treated as such.
>
>                 Please take a moment to respond
>                 here:https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/R77ZLQK.*Please
>                 respond before Tuesday 10 September at 14:00 UTC.*
>
>                 Note that if the Work Track is able to come to an
>                 agreement to put forward this recommendation, this is
>                 the only recommendation Work Track 5 will make on the
>                 topic of Additional Categories of Terms Not Included
>                 in the 2012 Applicant Guidebook. If the Work Track is
>                 not able to come to an agreement to put forward this
>                 recommendation, the Work Track will not make a
>                 recommendation on this topic to the full Working Group.
>
>                 Kind regards,
>
>                 WT5 Co-Leaders
>                 Olga Cavalli, Annebeth Lange, Javier Rúa-Jovet, Martin
>                 Sutton
>
>
>
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