[Gnso-newgtld-wg] Proposed Agenda: New gTLD Subsequent Procedures Working Group, 15 May 2017 at 15:00 UTC

Iftikhar Hussain Shah gac1 at moitt.gov.pk
Thu May 18 06:20:22 UTC 2017


Dear  Michael

Thanks for this,  we are  on the same page, I just give an example of cat 3 and cat 5 .

Regards

Iftikhar



From: Michael Flemming [mailto:flemming at brightsconsulting.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 10:14 AM
To: Iftikhar Hussain Shah
Cc: Jannik Skou; Rob Hall; gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org
Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Proposed Agenda: New gTLD Subsequent Procedures Working Group, 15 May 2017 at 15:00 UTC

Hi Iftikhar,

I support the direction of consolidating similar categories. I can understand why we would want to lump 3 with 5, but we need to revisit what we want as the key factor that separates a TLD into a different category be based upon their intent in running the TLD (meaning whether its for profit or not). Essentially, you could have that at the top of the hierarchy, but even within the for profit and not-for-profit TLDs there are further break downs such as validated TLDs, open-registration, etc. There are many overlaps that are possible over parent and subcategories. Yet, Geo TLDs seems to be an existing category itself (whether or not is run by the government or with the non-objection of a government).

I support the notion of having 3 to 4 categories of TLDs. Furthermore, I also think that each of these should be able to have different contracts with ICANN. If one were to further breakdown those 3 or 4 categories into further subcategories, you could have provisions that may not apply to a certain subcategory. That is a conversation we have been discussing in the WT2, but can certainly be opened up here for feedback.

To echo Jannik's model, we might foresee something like the following.

1. Not-for profit

2. For-profit

3. Geo

4. Spec 13 Brands

Regards,

Michael Flemming

On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 2:05 PM, Iftikhar Hussain Shah <gac1 at moitt.gov.pk<mailto:gac1 at moitt.gov.pk>> wrote:
With reference to Jannik Skou e-mail below,  the categories like 3. Geo TLD operated by private entity “for profit”  and  5. For profit TLDs are creating confusion cause  of relating to profit TLDs. It is suggested that we may reduce the number of categories and consider into broad categories.

Regards

Iftikhar


From: gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces at icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces at icann.org> [mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces at icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces at icann.org>] On Behalf Of Jannik Skou
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 4:58 PM
To: Rob Hall
Cc: gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org>
Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Proposed Agenda: New gTLD Subsequent Procedures Working Group, 15 May 2017 at 15:00 UTC

Rob and All

I suggest these five categories:

1. Geo TLD operated and sponsored by State/Region/Province/Municipality
(Lower costs as Q45-50 is irrelevant)

 2. Not for Profit TLDs (substituting the “community TLDs”)
Annual reports to be sent to ICANN for audit – OR national authorities to approve the annual report (and sent to ICANN) to allow for continued operation of TLDs. NOTE Not for Profits should pay reduced SLA fees to ICANN AND be able to apply for financial support from surplus (like “less represented” region applicants”) to promote diversity in the new gTLD space.

3. Geo TLD operated by private entity “for profit”
(Still based on letter of support/non-objection).

4. Spec 13 .BRANDs TLDs
(with TMs in TMCH prior to publication of next “Applicant Guidebook” and timeline for application window (at least 8 Months before the opening of the next window). Exemption of Code of Conduct TLDs (primarily, .brands with no TM in TMCH) are also in Category 4.

5. For profit TLDs
(equivalent to "standard application"in 2012)
“For profit TLDs” can be open, nexus-based or “restricted/verification TLDs” In case of contention: the lowest number of category is granted the TLD. If two applicants apply for identical string in the same category, same contention set resolution process (eventually ICANN Auction) as in round 2012 should apply. NOTE applicants/operators are NOT allowed to change registration policy, once delegated. (Or maybe after a public comment period, but should be difficult to avoid “gaming” the categories to gain an advantage.

All applications must be part of the RA - changing category should allow for any contention set applicants to bid on the TLD - and if no contention set, a public comment period would be needed AND the RA to be updated including business plans etc.

For details on pricing/bundling of applications etc. see: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/comments-subsequent-procedures-22mar17/attachments/20170403/8a973579/GNSOCC2NewgTLDSubProceduresCommentsfromJannikSkouThomsenTrampedach-0001.pdf - This would maybe make GAC happy in regards to GEO/Brand conflicts (GEOs would have to apply to avoid a .brand from getting it - and would get it, if applied for. (I may be naive here), the CPE “farce” would be avoided - and diversity (“non-for-profit”) would be supported and .brands (majority of next round applications most likely) AND ICANN panelist would have an easier track.

All categories have the same RA - but the application is PART of the RA (and everything in the Application is made public (apart from private addresses of companies listed on any stock exchange).



Kind regards  |  Mit freundlichem Gruss,

Jannik Skou, MBA
Partner

Thomsen Trampedach GmbH
Grundstrasse 22a
6343 Rotkreuz
Switzerland

T          +45.22275696<tel:+45%2022%2027%2056%2096>
M         js at thomsentrampedach.com<mailto:js at thomsentrampedach.com>
W        http://thomsentrampedach.com

On 16 May 2017, at 13:23, Rob Hall <rob at momentous.com<mailto:rob at momentous.com>> wrote:

Are we talking about categories of contracts ?

Or are we talking about categories as applications.

I think the distinction is important.   I can see different contracts for different types of TLD’s.   But not different application processes or paths.

The problem is when a TLD wants to change from one contract to another, as we are starting to see in the current round.

Rob

From: Jean Guillon <jean at guillon.com<mailto:jean at guillon.com>>
Date: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 7:14 AM
To: "Jorge.Cancio at bakom.admin.ch<mailto:Jorge.Cancio at bakom.admin.ch>" <Jorge.Cancio at bakom.admin.ch<mailto:Jorge.Cancio at bakom.admin.ch>>
Cc: Rob Hall <rob at momentous.com<mailto:rob at momentous.com>>, "alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca<mailto:alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca>" <alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca<mailto:alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca>>, "gregshatanipc at gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc at gmail.com>" <gregshatanipc at gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc at gmail.com>>, "gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org>" <gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org<mailto:wg at icann.org>>
Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Proposed Agenda: New gTLD Subsequent Procedures Working Group, 15 May 2017 at 15:00 UTC

I'd say that categories make sense. Applicants can identify where they want to go to.
In round one, ".BRAND new gTLDs were considered as generic TLDs "with options".
Categories offer precision.

On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 6:30 AM, <Jorge.Cancio at bakom.admin.ch<mailto:Jorge.Cancio at bakom.admin.ch>> wrote:
Good point!
Past mistakes with some TLD tracks do not mean that we should throw away the baby with the bathing water, but that we learn from them and improve the system.

Jorge


________________________________

Von: Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca<mailto:alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca>>
Datum: 16. Mai 2017 um 04:15:36 MESZ
An: Rob Hall <rob at momentous.com<mailto:rob at momentous.com>>, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc at gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc at gmail.com>>
Cc: gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org> <gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org>>
Betreff: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Proposed Agenda: New gTLD Subsequent Procedures Working Group, 15 May 2017 at 15:00 UTC

And in fact, categories could give us the ability to address the Brand issue and not constrain them to rounds should we choose, just as we do not constrain them with some of the other rules applicable to typical TLDs.

Alan

At 15/05/2017 09:58 PM, Rob Hall wrote:

Greg,

Help me understand why you would not want to get to a state where anyone can apply for a gTLD at any time ?

I believe this entire artificial “in rounds† that we are doing now is what is causing most of the issues.

I feel a lot of pressure is coming from Brands that missed the last round and want their TLD.   If we had an open TLD registration process, they could have easily applied by now.   I suspect that the entire reason for “Categories† is to try and say we should proceed with one ahead of another.

By doing it in rounds, we are creating the scarcity that causes most of the contention and issues.

As I just joined the list, perhaps I have missed why categories are a good idea.  Can someone fill me in ?

Rob.

From: Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc at gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc at gmail.com>>
Date: Monday, May 15, 2017 at 9:27 PM
To: Rob Hall <rob at momentous.com<mailto:rob at momentous.com>>
Cc: Martin Sutton <martin at brandregistrygroup.org<mailto:martin at brandregistrygroup.org>>, Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman at comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman at comlaude.com>>, "gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org>" <gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org>>
Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Proposed Agenda: New gTLD Subsequent Procedures Working Group, 15 May 2017 at 15:00 UTC

I don't think that's where we are trying to get to.  Rather "rounds vs. anyone can apply for a TLD at any time" is one of the big questions for this WG.  (I guess we know your preferred answer now....)

There are a number of good reasons for categories -- certainly enough not to dismiss it out of hand.  Turning the TLD space into a "high rollers" version of the SLD space is a troubling idea, to say the least.

There were certainly problems with the community applications (not really a separate "round") but something done poorly may be worth doing better.  I'm sure we have plenty of other horror stories from different parts of the New gTLD Program and from different perspectives.  We should learn from them, rather than use them as an excuse to move away from them.

Greg

Greg Shatan
C: 917-816-6428<tel:(917)%20816-6428>
S: gsshatan
gregshatanipc at gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc at gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc at gmail.com%3cmailto:gregshatanipc at gmail.com>>

On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 1:17 PM, Rob Hall <rob at momentous.com<mailto:rob at momentous.com<mailto:rob at momentous.com%3cmailto:rob at momentous.com>>> wrote:

I honestly can’t see the purpose of categories.

If you think of the place we are trying to get to, where anyone can apply for a TLD at any time, categories seems to be a waste of time.

The arguments for them seem to focus on these artificial Rounds we are having, and somehow giving someone a leg up on someone else.   I can just imagine the loud screaming when someone games the system.   Have we not learned anything from the sTLD and community rounds we just went through ?

Rob.

From: < gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces at icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces at icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces at icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces at icann.org>>> on behalf of Martin Sutton <martin at brandregistrygroup.org<mailto:martin at brandregistrygroup.org<mailto:martin at brandregistrygroup.org%3cmailto:martin at brandregistrygroup.org>>>
Date: Monday, May 15, 2017 at 9:25 AM
To: Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman at comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman at comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman at comlaude.com%3cmailto:jeff.neuman at comlaude.com>> >
Cc: " gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org>>" < gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org>>>

Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Proposed Agenda: New gTLD Subsequent Procedures Working Group, 15 May 2017 at 15:00 UTC

That would be helpful.

I have difficulties reconciling the notion of ignoring categories, as it caused no end of problems after applications were submitted and created unnecessary delays. Where there are well-defined categories and a proven demand, categories can be created and processes refined for that particular category, especially where the operating model is very different to the traditional selling /distribution to third parties.

Kind regards,

Martin

Martin Sutton
Executive Director
Brand Registry Group
martin at brandregistrygroup.org<mailto:martin at brandregistrygroup.org<mailto:martin at brandregistrygroup.org%3cmailto:martin at brandregistrygroup.org>>


On 15 May 2017, at 15:17, Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman at comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman at comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman at comlaude.com%3cmailto:jeff.neuman at comlaude.com>> > wrote:

Thanks Kurt.  Can you recirculate that article you wrote 6 months ago?  It may help our discussions later today.

Jeffrey J. Neuman
Senior Vice President |Valideus USA | Com Laude USA
1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600
Mclean, VA 22102, United States
E: jeff.neuman at valideus.com<mailto:jeff.neuman at valideus.com<mailto:jeff.neuman at valideus.com%3cmailto:jeff.neuman at valideus.com>> orjeff.neuman at comlaude.com<mailto:jeff.neuman at comlaude.com<mailto:orjeff.neuman at comlaude.com%3cmailto:jeff.neuman at comlaude.com>>
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M: +1.202.549.5079<tel:(202)%20549-5079><tel:(202)%20549-5079>
@Jintlaw


From: gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces at icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces at icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces at icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces at icann.org>> [ mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Kurt Pritz
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 6:35 AM
To: Steve Chan <steve.chan at icann.org<mailto:steve.chan at icann.org<mailto:steve.chan at icann.org%3cmailto:steve.chan at icann.org>>>; gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org>>
Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Proposed Agenda: New gTLD Subsequent Procedures Working Group, 15 May 2017 at 15:00 UTC

Hi Everyone:

In reading the agenda for today’s meeting, I read the spreadsheet describing the different TLD types. (See,https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1mA_hTUhLhJSsfcmoQwREtUqxykZ5KfJffzJAAhEvNlA/edit#gid=1186181551 ).

It looks remarkably similar to a chart presented to the ICANN Board in 2010 or 2011 as the main argument for not adding to the categories of TLDs in the last round because they would be problematic (read, “impossible†) to implement.

Even in this spreadsheet, I can argue whether most of the tick marks in the cells apply in all cases. This means that each of the many tick marks presents a significant barrier to: (1) getting through the policy discussion in a timely manner, and (2) a clean implementation.

Categories of TLDs have always been problematic.

The single most important lesson from the 2003-04 sponsored TLD round was to avoid a system where delegation of domain name registries was predicated upon satisfying criteria associated with categories.

In the last round, the Guidebook provided for two category types: community and geographic. In my opinion, the implementation of both was problematic: look at the variances in CPE results and the difficulty with .AFRICA. This wasn’t just a process failure, the task itself was extremely difficult. Just how does an evaluation panel adjudge a government approval of a TLD application if one ministry says, ‘yes’ and the other ’no’? This sort of issue is simple compared to evaluating community applications.

The introduction of a number of new gTLD categories with a number of different accommodations will lead to a complex and difficult application and evaluation process (and an expensive, complicated contractual compliance environment). It is inevitable that the future will include ongoing attempts to create policy for new categories as they are conceived.

For those who want a smoothly running, fair, predictable gTLD program, the creation of categories should be avoided.

Instead, the outcome of our policy discussion could be a process that remains flexible and can adapt to new business models as they are developed. An exemption process to certain contractual conditions can be created to encourage innovation while ensuring all policy goals embodied in the RA are met. Fair and flexible agreements can be written without the need, time and complexity of the creation of additional categories or separate agreements.

While an exemption process sounds complex, it is not compared to the nightmare that the new gTLD process will become: never adequately administering to an ever-increasing number of categories.

I wrote in more depth about this ~ 6 months ago - and would be happy to flesh out my thoughts on this again.

Best regards,

Kurt

________________
Kurt Pritz
kurt at kjpritz.com<mailto:kurt at kjpritz.com<mailto:kurt at kjpritz.com%3cmailto:kurt at kjpritz.com>>
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Skype: kjpritz






On May 15, 2017, at 3:43 AM, Steve Chan <steve.chan at icann.org<mailto:steve.chan at icann.org<mailto:steve.chan at icann.org%3cmailto:steve.chan at icann.org>>> wrote:

Dear WG Members,

Apologies for the late delivery. Below, please find the proposed agenda for the New gTLD Subsequent Procedures WG meeting scheduled for Monday, 15 May 2017 at 15:00 UTC for 90 minutes.

1)       Welcome/SOIs
2)       Work Track Updates
3)       GDD Summit Recap
4)       Drafting Team Update – Different TLD Types (< https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1mA_hTUhLhJSsfcmoQwREtUqxykZ5KfJffzJAAhEvNlA/edit#gid=1186181551 )
5)       Community Comment 2 (CC2) Update –“ Public Comment available here: https://www.icann.org/public-comments/cc2-new-gtld-subsequent-procedures-2017-03-22-en
6)       ICANN59 Planning
7)       AOB

If you need a dial-out or want to send an apology, please email gnso-secs at icann.org<mailto:gnso-secs at icann.org<mailto:gnso-secs at icann.org%3cmailto:gnso-secs at icann.org>>.

Best,
Steve


Steven Chan

Sr. Policy Manager



ICANN
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