[Gnso-newgtld-wg] Proposed Agenda: New gTLD Subsequent Procedures Working Group, 15 May 2017 at 15:00 UTC

Shreema Sarkar shreema at duaassociates.com
Thu May 18 06:55:19 UTC 2017


I too second the land-rush analogy since objective of any policy is to serve 
the global public interest.

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Shreema Sarkar

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From: gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces at icann.org 
[mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of 
Jorge.Cancio at bakom.admin.ch
Sent: 18 May 2017 12:22
To: AAikman at lrrc.com; jeff.neuman at comlaude.com; rob at momentous.com; 
alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca; christa at dottba.com; vgreimann at key-systems.net; 
gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org
Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Proposed Agenda: New gTLD Subsequent 
Procedures Working Group, 15 May 2017 at 15:00 UTC



Dear Anne,



I found the land-rush analogy quite interesting (as put forward by Greg). 
With the important caveat that (we may say) there are already people 
scattered on the lands subject to the land rush – and they should have a 
fair say during the process, which implies that a FCFS does not work.



A string may sometimes be only one possible combination of meanings which 
may not affect anyone – but it may also have a lot of significance to a 
certain people, community etc. – we should not put them in a situation where 
they have to continuously monitor applications and (if they are made aware 
of the application) use costly objection procedures…



After all the policy is there to serve the global public interest – and I 
don’t think you can boil that down to a FCFS system…



Regards



Jorge



Von: Aikman-Scalese, Anne [mailto:AAikman at lrrc.com]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 17. Mai 2017 17:53
An: Cancio Jorge BAKOM <Jorge.Cancio at bakom.admin.ch>; 
jeff.neuman at comlaude.com; rob at momentous.com; alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca; 
christa at dottba.com; vgreimann at key-systems.net; gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org
Betreff: RE: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Proposed Agenda: New gTLD Subsequent 
Procedures Working Group, 15 May 2017 at 15:00 UTC



Hi Jorge,

I don’t think we should treat TLDs like oil & gas deposits.  The reason is 
that there are many variations on possible TLDs and the use of words depends 
on creativity in the marketplace.  Importantly, there are Objection 
procedures to address the types of concerns you are raising.



At a certain future  point, I think FCFS makes sense in a free market, as 
long as we have more efficient and less costly objection procedures and 
thorough evaluation prior to award as well as commitment to PICs and no 
change in purpose on Question 18 unless approved by ICANN.



I do think that there has to be a standard though in relation to Greg’s 
concern that applicants who have no intention of  launching a particular TLD 
will just try to reserve it.  In other words, a time period during which you 
“Launch it or Lose It”.



What does the old AGB say about time requirements for launch from the point 
of the award of the TLD?

Anne




Anne E. Aikman-Scalese


Of Counsel


520.629.4428 office



520.879.4725 fax


 <mailto:AAikman at lrrc.com> AAikman at lrrc.com


_____________________________





Lewis Roca Rothgerber Christie LLP


One South Church Avenue, Suite 700


Tucson, Arizona 85701-1611


 <http://lrrc.com/> lrrc.com





From: Jorge.Cancio at bakom.admin.ch [mailto:Jorge.Cancio at bakom.admin.ch]
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 11:39 PM
To: jeff.neuman at comlaude.com; rob at momentous.com; alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca; 
Aikman-Scalese, Anne; christa at dottba.com; vgreimann at key-systems.net; 
gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org
Subject: AW: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Proposed Agenda: New gTLD Subsequent 
Procedures Working Group, 15 May 2017 at 15:00 UTC



Dear all



I just don’t get it how a unique resource (a TLD) might be delegated on a 
FCFS basis. After all there will always be potential legitimate contending 
claims and interests – but the relevant stakeholder may not be as quick as 
others with e.g. deeper pockets: should a unique resource be delegated just 
because someone is quicker?



Kind regards



Jorge





Von: gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces at icann.org 
[mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces at icann.org] Im Auftrag von Jeff Neuman
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 17. Mai 2017 04:57
An: Rob Hall <rob at momentous.com>; Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca>; 
Aikman-Scalese, Anne <AAikman at lrrc.com>; 'Christa Taylor' 
<christa at dottba.com>; 'Volker Greimann' <vgreimann at key-systems.net>; 
gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org
Betreff: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Proposed Agenda: New gTLD Subsequent 
Procedures Working Group, 15 May 2017 at 15:00 UTC



Rob,



To clarify, and I think this is consistent with some other proposals as 
well:



1.  ICANN conducts a “round 2” which deals with the pent up demand.  We 
would have to work out contention resolution rules and whether priority is 
offered to any category, etc.

2.  After some up-front stated time period (which we would need to provide 
advice on).  ICANN opens up permanents to receive TLD applications and 
processes/evaluates and awards TLDs on a First-come, First-served basis. 
However, to ease the tracking problem that would come if applications were 
posted every day, ICANN would commit to posting all of its proposals 
Quarterly (for example) so that anyone that wanted to file objections, 
public comments, etc. would have to only check 4X per year (as an example). 
This would eliminate all contention resolution, unless of course the 
application is unsuccessful (in which case someone will develop a wait list 
service for TLDs ;)).



Other than that last part, do I have that right?  If so, it presents an 
interesting combination of a few proposals we have on the table and a new 
option for the group to consider.


Thanks!



Jeffrey J. Neuman

Senior Vice President |Valideus USA | Com Laude USA

1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600

Mclean, VA 22102, United States

E:  <mailto:jeff.neuman at valideus.com> jeff.neuman at valideus.com or 
<mailto:jeff.neuman at comlaude.com> jeff.neuman at comlaude.com

T: +1.703.635.7514

M: +1.202.549.5079

@Jintlaw





From: gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces at icann.org 
[mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Rob Hall
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 10:33 PM
To: Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca>; Aikman-Scalese, Anne 
<AAikman at lrrc.com>; 'Christa Taylor' <christa at dottba.com>; 'Volker Greimann' 
<vgreimann at key-systems.net>; gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org
Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Proposed Agenda: New gTLD Subsequent 
Procedures Working Group, 15 May 2017 at 15:00 UTC



OK .. didn’t mean to step on anyones toes that was not part of this current 
string.



I don’t think anyone on this string has advocated FCFS as an initial 
solution.  I wanted to be clear that FCFS only was NOT what I was suggesting 
or advocating for.



The more I think about it, the more I actually think that if we were to 
concentrate on what a FCFS world would look like (post contention round) 
that a lot of the policy would become much simpler and more clear.



As an example, would we need categories ?



Perhaps for what was in or out of the contract.  Ie: It becomes just a means 
of a checkbox as to which one you are so we know what contract terms apply.



But for priority ?   Can’t see why a category would be needed at all in a 
FCFS world.



So then the question becomes are they really relevant during what I will 
call the “Contention landrush period”, or perhaps “Contention Sunrise”. 
Because that seems to be where most of the debate is focused.



Rob



From: Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca>
Date: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 10:27 PM
To: Rob Hall <rob at momentous.com>, "Aikman-Scalese, Anne" <AAikman at lrrc.com>, 
'Christa Taylor' <christa at dottba.com>, 'Volker Greimann' 
<vgreimann at key-systems.net>, "gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org" 
<gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org>
Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Proposed Agenda: New gTLD Subsequent 
Procedures Working Group, 15 May 2017 at 15:00 UTC



Rob, YOU may not be advocating FCFS to start with, but this WG has been 
going on for 15 months and that HAS been advocated. So much so that we are 
not allowed to refer to however/whenever there will be a further release of 
GTLDs as a "round".

Alan

At 16/05/2017 10:03 PM, Rob Hall wrote:

Anne,

To be clear, no one is advocating FCFS to start off.   It is only being 
suggested AFTER the next round ends.  So that after we have dealt any pent 
up demand, we move to a rolling registration of FCFS.

I think the objection I hear most is how can it be monitored.   The reality 
is that it takes so many months for ICANN to move through the process that I 
don’t believe it will really be an issue.

However, we could just have ICANN issue the list of applications once a 
month, or once a quarter even, to make it easier to track.

When they announce is not related to when the application is received and 
the priority it gets in a FCFS – after thee round- model.

Rob

From: "Aikman-Scalese, Anne" <AAikman at lrrc.com>
Date: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 6:08 PM
To: 'Christa Taylor' <christa at dottba.com>, 'Volker Greimann' 
<vgreimann at key-systems.net>, Rob Hall <rob at momentous.com>, 
"gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org" <gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org>
Subject: RE: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Proposed Agenda: New gTLD Subsequent 
Procedures Working Group, 15 May 2017 at 15:00 UTC

What about a hybrid approach?  FCFS is a terrible idea when no application 
has been permitted for over 5 years.  There is “pent-up” demand.   It is 
also a terrible idea in terms of ICANN staff resources.   Personally (and 
obviously not a view of the IPC), I would see it this way:

1.       We know GAC will advise Community Priority Round based on EC Report 
and Copenhagen Communique.  It would take 60% of the Board to reject that 
public policy advice and 2/3 of the Board to reject GNSO Council Advice to 
the contrary.  Will the Board act in this situation or just tell GAC and 
GNSO to “work it out”?  Why not “cut to the chase” and work it out 
with the GAC now ?   All Objection processes should apply.  PICs have to be 
made in connection with Community applications and they can’t be revoked 
or it voids the registry agreement.    It’s up to Track 3 to develop more 
policy on Community applications but watch out that we don’t trample on 
certain rights by stating that a Community application has to meet a 
“social good” requirement.  “Community” is also about freedom of 
association, or in this case, freedom of “virtual association”.

(Please note GAC may even include IGOs and Governmental Organization 
applications in its public policy Advice for priority rounds.   No idea what 
applies as to IGOs and GOs in terms of definition and PICs.   Could an LRO 
be successful against a Governmental Organization application for  a geo 
name?  Is there any way to work this out now?  ICANN has got to get way more 
efficient in resolving policy differences before they get to the Board. 
And would this free up the process for geo name applications if no 
application is made by a Governmental Organization during this window? 
Could there be an “estoppel” factor if geo name not covered by old 
version of AGB?)

2.      Applications from Brands – Yes, I favor a windoow for brands.  Why? 
Because it’s all easier under Spec 13 and I want the investment that 
brands have made in the marketing of brand names that correspond with 
potential TLD strings to pay off.  (Yes, I am a trademark lawyer.) 
Objection procedures still apply – e.g. string confusion, community 
objection, legal rigghts, limited public interest, etc.    Applications for 
same brand passing initial evaluation process would go into string 
contention.  After the contract award, a brand may only transfer to a third 
party acquiring all or substantially all its stock or assets, the trademark, 
and the good will associated with the brand, and assuming all obligations of 
the registry, including PICs if any.

3.      Open Window of Six Months – ICANN takes all ccomers and applications 
compete.  String contention and all objection procedures apply.

4.      Six months after # 3 – FFCFS - No window – all types of applications 
welcome - FFirst Come, First Served, (no window but we need a public notice 
process as to strings applied for to trigger notice for objections).

Anne

Anne E. Aikman-Scalese
Of Counsel
520.629.4428 office
520.879.4725 fax
AAikman at lrrc.com
_____________________________
]
Lewis Roca Rothgerber Christie LLP
One South Church Avenue, Suite 700
Tucson, Arizona 85701-1611
lrrc.com <http://lrrc.com/>

From: gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces at icann.org [ 
mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces at icann.org 
<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces at icann.org> ] On Behalf Of Christa Taylor
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 11:07 AM
To: 'Volker Greimann'; 'Rob Hall'; gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org
Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Proposed Agenda: New gTLD Subsequent 
Procedures Working Group, 15 May 2017 at 15:00 UTC

Lots of different perspectives so thought I’d add another.

Appears as though categories, priorities, etc. creates concerns around 
gaming the system.   Perhaps trying to deal with the elephant in the room 
would be the more direct approach.  How do we prevent gaming?  For instance, 
what if there was no private auction process or if the registry could 
potentially lose ownership of the TLD if it changed its operations to a 
different purpose than applied for or the TLD was sold within a short period 
of time afterwards?   I’m not saying that these are solutions but just 
trying to provoke a different perspective/thought.

Cheers,

Christa

From: gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces at icann.org [ 
mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces at icann.org 
<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces at icann.org> ] On Behalf Of Volker Greimann
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 8:54 AM
To: Rob Hall <rob at momentous.com>; gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org
Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Proposed Agenda: New gTLD Subsequent 
Procedures Working Group, 15 May 2017 at 15:00 UTC


If conditions remain the same, then yes, you would probably experience the 
rush in the round part, not in the FCFS part down the road. But this does 
not resolve the issue of various parties having to continue to watch over 
the applications that come in over time. Instead of claims notices you'd 
have to have "application notice services" to protect affected parties from 
applications that affect them directly from slipping through unnoticed. And 
even then the risk of missing an application someone might have a legitimate 
objection too is very high.

It also rewards the fast over the thorough. Say two potential applicants 
have the same idea for a string at the same time. One writes up a quick 
application and fires it off while the other takes care that the application 
fits the community it is designed to serve, but alas as that takes a day 
longer, that applicant misses out as the other "came first".

OTOH, I am not a big fan of rounds either. Keeping it simple has its 
benefits.

Maybe FCFS is the best of all worlds after all, but we at least should 
consider the risks and dangers and ensure that whatever we end up with 
cannot be gamed for public harm.

Best,

Volker


Am 16.05.2017 um 17:43 schrieb Rob Hall:

Sigh.



My point Volker is that others did it as well, and it perfectly handled pent 
up demand.  This is clearly not just about one TLD.



Are you really suggesting that if we did a round, say 3-4 months of open 
applications, followed by FCFS for any string not applied in that round, 
that you think there would be a rush in the first day ?  I fail to 
comprehend how that is possible.



Rob



From: Volker Greimann  <mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net> 
<vgreimann at key-systems.net>

Date: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 11:33 AM

To: Rob Hall  <mailto:rob at momentous.com> <rob at momentous.com>, 
<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org> "gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org" 
<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org> <gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org>

Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Proposed Agenda: New gTLD Subsequent 
Procedures Working Group, 15 May 2017 at 15:00 UTC



Well yes, Rob, your TLD was a special snowflake that cannot realistically be 
compared to most other TLDs though, can it?



Am 16.05.2017 um 17:31 schrieb Rob Hall:

Volker,



Your statement is NOT true in any TLD that had a round first.



Many TLD’s had a round prior to FCFS that served to handle the load of the 
rush.



We did exactly that, and had absolutely no rush in the first day of FCFS. 
Not any.  There was no point.  You could have applied yesterday just as 
today.



Rob



From:  <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces at icann.org> 
<gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces at icann.org> on behalf of Volker Greimann 
<mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net> <vgreimann at key-systems.net>

Date: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 11:11 AM

To:  <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org> "gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org" 
<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org> <gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org>

Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Proposed Agenda: New gTLD Subsequent 
Procedures Working Group, 15 May 2017 at 15:00 UTC



 I am always surprised when First come First served becomes a discussion 
about the best technology.   That only occurs when you artificially create 
demand, like we are doing in the rounds, or like we are doing in the 
deleting domain space.

 Domains are registered every day on a first come first served basis in all 
the new gTLD’s.

Actually, when you look at the curves for most existing new gTLDs, excepting 
those that run regular "free promotions", you will find that the majority 
will have about half or more of their overall registrations happen in the 
first few hours or days.

Opening the gates will always create an initial rush that the fastest will 
benefit from most.

Another issue with a continuous process is that of monitoring. With rounds, 
it is essentially quite easy for potentially affected parties to look at 
what is there and then chose whether an objection is warranted or needed. 
With an open free for all, those organizations would have to perpetuate that 
monitoring and constantly have to waste time and ressources to make that 
decision.

That is nice if you sell such monitoring services, but not cost effective 
for those affected.

From:  <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces at icann.org> 
<gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces at icann.org> on behalf of Alexander Schubert 
<mailto:alexander at schubert.berlin> <alexander at schubert.berlin>

Reply-To:  <mailto:alexander at schubert.berlin> "alexander at schubert.berlin" 
<mailto:alexander at schubert.berlin> <alexander at schubert.berlin>

Date: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 10:54 AM

To:  <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org> "gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org" 
<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org> <gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org>

Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Proposed Agenda: New gTLD Subsequent 
Procedures Working Group, 15 May 2017 at 15:00 UTC



Rob,

I agree to a degree. But what with “free market access” and 
“competition”? I assume we face about 10,000 applications within 3 month 
after we open the floodgates.  Doesn’t matter whether it is a “round” 
or an “ongoing process” – thhe number of applications won’t change.

If you have no “round” – what is it then? The only othher thing than a 
“round” is “First Comes First Served”. That’s a competition 
KILLER. The ones will win who have the best “gTLD snapping technology”. 
Why would we ELIMINATE competition?

There is no way around having a “round” once we are ready to accept 
applications. Plus there needs to be AMPLE time (at least 6 month) after the 
final Applicant Guidebook is published for applicants to make themselves 
familiar with the AGB and form their application: This time it won’t be 
only ICANN insiders who apply – but also many outsiders. The application 
window itself could then be rather short (1 week should be enough).

But I agree with you: Instead of a vague “promise” of a next round in 
“about a year” – we should ALREADY set the date for the nnext 
application window  6 to 12 month later. A fixed date! It wouldn’t make 
much sense to have the next window right 3 month later – ICANN’s 
capacities will nnot allow for it. Also the next window dates should be 
FIXED.

So it’s almost like your “continuous application mechanism” with one 
“launch date” – just that there are various windows with fixed dates. To 
allow for competition to happen.

Thanks,



Alexander







From: Rob Hall [mailto:rob at momentous.com]

Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 4:38 PM

To: alexander at schubert.berlin; gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org

Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Proposed Agenda: New gTLD Subsequent 
Procedures Working Group, 15 May 2017 at 15:00 UTC



Alexander,



There is no way that ICANN does rounds as fast as you are desiring.  There 
will always be forces that want to delay, and use review and updating to 
enact that delay.



The last guidebook contemplated a round 1 year later.   And now it looks 
like it will be 8.  The previous rounds envisioned the same thing.



If we don’t explicitly design a system that allows it to be open 
applications we are destined to repeat ourselves.



The need for rounds is artificial.  We create this by not allowing open 
applications.



We all seem OK with a sunrise period when a TLD launches.  A round is 
exactly the same idea.  It allows for applications during a period at the 
start in order to deal with contentions.



Contentions only exist because we are not allowing open applications.



Oh, and this notion of priority and categories also all goes away if we just 
allow open applications.



I want to be careful that we don’t layer on solving issues with convoluted 
categories for a problem we created.



Rob



From: < gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces at icann.org 
<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces at icann.org> > on behalf of Alexander Schubert 
< alexander at schubert.berlin <mailto:alexander at schubert.berlin> >

Reply-To: " alexander at schubert.berlin <mailto:alexander at schubert.berlin> " < 
alexander at schubert.berlin <mailto:alexander at schubert.berlin> >

Date: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 at 9:31 AM

To: " gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org> " < 
gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org> >

Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Proposed Agenda: New gTLD Subsequent 
Procedures Working Group, 15 May 2017 at 15:00 UTC



Hi,



I have initially been a BIG fan of “fast tracking” certain categories – 
and frankly would benefit myself (one of the strings I promote would fit 
into 4  or even 5 of these suggested categories). But after much thinking I 
must say: This smells like disaster! So I concur with Rob.

Especially as we would have to make sure that no “generic keyword based” 
term would be applied for (and fast-tracked) as either GEO or BRAND. Sneaky 
elements will find a small geo-region identical to a generic string  (think 
“.bar”) – obtainn the letter of non-objection – and get fast-tracked. 
They then do NOT set up locality requirements and …… €¦ market to 
“bars”. There is a geo location to almost every generic term.

Brands: there is no definition of a “brand” in regard to the DNS. At 
minimum the “brand” had to have a TM in say 25 to 50  (arbitrary number) 
countries since at least 20XX (ideally before 2012) – AND should NOT be 
“generic”. If you arre basing your brand on a generic term: Fine. Great. 
Your own choice. But please do not expect that you have a right on the 
entire generic keyword space on top level in the DNS. Apply with everybody 
else – and see whether theere is contention. In the real life “generic 
term based Brand protection” works because you can exempt the term’s 
natural meaning from being protected – in the DNNS there are no “Trademark 
Goods and Services Classes”: unwittingly the generic term meaning would be 
targeted, too! If you have a brand “sun”: GREAT! Just do not tell us no 
one else has a right to apply for a gTLD “.sun” – but you. You haven’t 
protected “SUN” froom being used – just for computers, or newspapers. 
Who kknows: Maybe there are 75 Million Chinese people with the surname 
“sun”? Allow someone to apply for a gTLD for them.

And “communities” or “non-profits”? NOT if their application is 
based on a generic term! By fast-tracking them we deny others access. This 
would create a HUGE mess – and liability for ICANN. ICANN woould get sued up 
and down.

So there must be ONE application window in 2020 (or whenever it is) – once 
the applications are all in: we might “side-track” GEOs or Brands IF 
there is no contention. But that seems rather an implementation than a 
policy issue, right?

As for the transition of “windows” (rounds) to “an ongoing process: I 
like Jeff Neumann’s suggestion that once when in a certain round there are 
only a few (or none?) contentions – we open the system up and allow real 
time application submitting. Till then we have e.g. every two years, 
annually or bi-annual “rounds”. Just not with an 8 years stop-gap in 
between like now. Most of the “adjustment” to the Guidebook is due now 
(between the 1st and the 2nd round). After that there will be fewer and 
smaller “adjustments” – they could be added “on the fly”. I guess 
thee 2nd round (2020) will take up all of ICANN’s capacity for say 2 
years. So the 3rd round could be set 2 years after the 2nd, the 4th a year 
after the 3rd, then biannual rounds. Just: We need certainty for future 
applicants –“ and definite schedule!

Thanks,



Alexander






From: gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces at icann.org [ 
mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces at icann.org 
<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces at icann.org> ] On Behalf Of Alan Greenberg

Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 5:14 AM

To: Rob Hall <rob at momentous.com>; Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc at gmail.com >

Cc: gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org

Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Proposed Agenda: New gTLD Subsequent 
Procedures Working Group, 15 May 2017 at 15:00 UTC



And in fact, categories could give us the ability to address the Brand issue 
and not constrain them to rounds should we choose, just as we do not 
constrain them with some of the other rules applicable to typical TLDs.

Alan

At 15/05/2017 09:58 PM, Rob Hall wrote:

Greg,



Help me understand why you would not want to get to a state where anyone can 
apply for a gTLD at any time ?



I believe this entire artificial “in rounds” that we are are doing now 
is what is causing most of the issues.



I feel a lot of pressure is coming from Brands that missed the last round 
and want their TLD.   If we had an open TLD registration process, they could 
have easily applied by now.   I suspect that the entire reason for 
“Categories•€ is to try and say we should proceed with one ahead of 
another.



By doing it in rounds, we are creating the scarcity that causes most of the 
contention and issues.



As I just joined the list, perhaps I have missed why categories are a good 
idea.  Can someone fill me in ?



Rob.



From: Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc at gmail.com >

Date: Monday, May 15, 2017 at 9:27 PM

To: Rob Hall <rob at momentous.com>

Cc: Martin Sutton < martin at brandregistrygroup.org 
<mailto:martin at brandregistrygroup.org> >, Jeff Neuman 
<jeff.neuman at comlaude.com >, " gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org 
<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org> " < gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org 
<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org> >

Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Proposed Agenda: New gTLD Subsequent 
Procedures Working Group, 15 May 2017 at 15:00 UTC



I don't think that's where we are trying to get to.  Rather "rounds vs. 
anyone can apply for a TLD at any time" is one of the big questions for this 
WG.  (I guess we know your preferred answer now....)



There are a number of good reasons for categories -- certainly enough not to 
dismiss it out of hand.  Turning the TLD space into a "high rollers" version 
of the SLD space is a troubling idea, to say the least.



There were certainly problems with the community applications (not really a 
separate "round") but something done poorly may be worth doing better.  I'm 
sure we have plenty of other horror stories from different parts of the New 
gTLD Program and from different perspectives.  We should learn from them, 
rather than use them as an excuse to move away from them.



Greg

Greg Shatan

C: 917-816-6428

S: gsshatan

gregshatanipc at gmail.com



On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 1:17 PM, Rob Hall <rob at momentous.com> wrote:

I honestly can̢۪t see the purpose of categories.



If you think of the place we are trying to get to, where anyone can apply 
for a TLD at any time, categories seems to be a waste of time.



The arguments for them seem to focus on these artificial Rounds we are 
having, and somehow giving someone a leg up on someone else.   I can just 
imagine the loud screaming when someone games the system.   Have we not 
learned anything from the sTLD and community rounds we just went through ?



Rob.



From: < gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces at icann.org 
<mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces at icann.org> > on behalf of Martin Sutton < 
martin at brandregistrygroup.org <mailto:martin at brandregistrygroup.org> >

Date: Monday, May 15, 2017 at 9:25 AM

To: Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman at comlaude.com >

Cc: " gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org> " < 
gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org> >

Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Proposed Agenda: New gTLD Subsequent 
Procedures Working Group, 15 May 2017 at 15:00 UTC



That would be helpful.



I have difficulties reconciling the notion of ignoring categories, as it 
caused no end of problems after applications were submitted and created 
unnecessary delays. Where there are well-defined categories and a proven 
demand, categories can be created and processes refined for that particular 
category, especially where the operating model is very different to the 
traditional selling /distribution to third parties.



Kind regards,



Martin



Martin Sutton

Executive Director

Brand Registry Group

martin at brandregistrygroup.org



On 15 May 2017, at 15:17, Jeff Neuman <jeff.neuman at comlaude.com > wrote:



Thanks Kurt.  Can you recirculate that article you wrote 6 months ago?  It 
may help our discussions later today.



Jeffrey J. Neuman

Senior Vice President |Valideus USA | Com Laude USA

1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600

Mclean, VA 22102, United States

E: jeff.neuman at valideus.com or jeff.neuman at comlaude.com

T: +1.703.635.7514 <tel:%28703%29%20635-7514>

M: +1.202.549.5079 <tel:%28202%29%20549-5079>

@Jintlaw





From: gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces at icann.org [ 
mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Kurt Pritz

Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 6:35 AM

To: Steve Chan <steve.chan at icann.org>; gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org

Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Proposed Agenda: New gTLD Subsequent 
Procedures Working Group, 15 May 2017 at 15:00 UTC



Hi Everyone:



In reading the agenda for today’™s meeting, I read the spreadsheet 
describing the different TLD types. (See, 
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1mA_hTUhLhJSsfcmoQwREtUqxykZ5KfJffzJAAhEvNlA/edit#gid=1186181551 ) 
.



It looks remarkably similar to a chart presented to the ICANN Board in 2010 
or 2011 as the main argument for not adding to the categories of TLDs in the 
last round because they would be problematic (read, “impossible”) to 
implement.



Even in this spreadsheet, I can argue whether most of the tick marks in the 
cells apply in all cases. This means that each of the many tick marks 
presents a significant barrier to: (1) getting through the policy discussion 
in a timely manner, and (2) a clean implementation.



Categories of TLDs have always been problematic.



The single most important lesson from the 2003-04 sponsored TLD round was to 
avoid a system where delegation of domain name registries was predicated 
upon satisfying criteria associated with categories.



In the last round, the Guidebook provided for two category types: community 
and geographic. In my opinion, the implementation of both was problematic: 
look at the variances in CPE results and the difficulty with .AFRICA. This 
wasn’t ¢t just a process failure, the task itself was extremely 
difficult. Just how does an evaluation panel adjudge a government approval 
of a TLD application if one ministry says, ‘yes’ and the other 
’no’? T¢no’? This sort of issue is simple compared to 
evaluating community applications.



The introduction of a number of new gTLD categories with a number of 
different accommodations will lead to a complex and difficult application 
and evaluation process (and an expensive, complicated contractual compliance 
environment). It is inevitable that the future will include ongoing attempts 
to create policy for new categories as they are conceived.



For those who want a smoothly running, fair, predictable gTLD program, the 
creation of categories should be avoided.



Instead, the outcome of our policy discussion could be a process that





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