[Gnso-newgtld-wg] Deliberations and Recommendations - CW comments
lists@christopherwilkinson.eu Wilkinson
lists at christopherwilkinson.eu
Thu Apr 12 18:30:45 UTC 2018
Good evening:
Thankyou, all, for several comments and corrections regarding my initial post.
Pace Jeff Neumann's obiter dicta, I feel that I should respond briefly to some of them.
1. Pricing: I did not open a general discussion about Registry-Registrar pricing; I was referring specifically to reported discriminatory pricing for 'premium domains', an issue that was raised in the text.
I expect this also to be an issue in Geo-Names. For example should <cork.munster> turn out to be several times more expensive than <killarney.munster> it is likely that ICANN would hear about it. Verb sap.
1. Competition: The argument about 'choice' is of limited validity in this market, particularly with reference to Geo-names. To follow the previous example, if <cork.munster> is too expensive or already taken, then <cork.donegall> would presumably be of no use whatsoever as an alternative. Furthermore, once the initial registration completed, should the registrant's domain become successful, there is normally no more choice of Registry.
I suggest that further discussion of those matters that are not within the GNSO's or the PDP's mandate be taken off List.
Regards
Christopher Wilkinson
PS: More generally, regarding competition policy, in my view ICANN IS the market regulator.
> El 12 de abril de 2018 a las 18:14 Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net> escribió:
>
>
> I think the main issues is that with an endless variety for pricing models for especially premium names, it can be sometimes a bit difficult to discern the renewal pricing of a particular domain name.
>
> In the previous world, one only had to look at the standard price list of a registrar, look for a TLD and find your renewal price. If you do that now, you may find a bad surprise down the road when you notice that this price does not apply to your premium name, no matter how big the letters on the website of the registrar pointing out the possibility of differential pricing between names in the same TLD were.
>
> It has become somewhat consumer-unfriendly.
>
> Volker
>
>
>
> Am 12.04.2018 um 17:46 schrieb Rob Hall:
>
> > >
> > Can someone explain to me what the concern is about transparency on price ?
> >
> >
> >
> > Registries publish their pricing to their clients, the Registrars.
> >
> >
> >
> > Registrars set whatever price they want for Registrants.
> >
> >
> >
> > Are we concerned about transparency of a Registrar not knowing what price a Registry is charging them ?
> >
> >
> >
> > Or are we concerned that a Registrant can’t tell what price their Registrar is charging them ?
> >
> >
> >
> > Rob
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Gnso-newgtld-wg <gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces at icann.org> mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces at icann.org on behalf of Vanda Scartezini <vanda at scartezini.org> mailto:vanda at scartezini.org
> > Date: Thursday, April 12, 2018 at 11:41 AM
> > To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele at blacknight.com> mailto:michele at blacknight.com , Maxim Alzoba <m.alzoba at gmail.com> mailto:m.alzoba at gmail.com
> > Cc: "gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org" mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org <gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org> mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org
> > Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Deliberations and Recommendations - CW comments
> >
> >
> >
> > Any regulation on price will lead to Cartel organizations and corruption associated to it. Agree that transparency is the only demand we shall make related to pricing and from my view majority of it is in the contract words.
> >
> > Best to all
> >
> >
> >
> > Vanda Scartezini
> >
> > Polo Consultores Associados
> >
> > Av. Paulista 1159, cj 1004
> >
> > 01311-200- Sao Paulo, SP, Brazil
> >
> > Land Line: +55 11 3266.6253
> >
> > Mobile: + 55 11 98181.1464
> >
> > Sorry for any typos.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Gnso-newgtld-wg <gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces at icann.org> mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces at icann.org on behalf of Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele at blacknight.com> mailto:michele at blacknight.com
> > Date: Thursday, April 12, 2018 at 06:35
> > To: Maxim Alzoba <m.alzoba at gmail.com> mailto:m.alzoba at gmail.com
> > Cc: "gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org" mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org <gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org> mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org
> > Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Deliberations and Recommendations - CW comments
> >
> >
> >
> > Wasn’t pricing and why attempting to regulate it already discussed to death in the last round?
> >
> >
> >
> > I have some recollection of this.
> >
> >
> >
> > I think the key thing with regard to pricing is transparency, which is already baked into the contracts.
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards
> >
> >
> >
> > Michele
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Mr Michele Neylon
> >
> > Blacknight Solutions
> >
> > Hosting, Colocation & Domains
> >
> > https://www.blacknight.com/
> >
> > http://blacknight.blog/
> >
> > Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072
> >
> > Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
> >
> > Personal blog: https://michele.blog/
> >
> > Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/
> >
> > -------------------------------
> >
> > Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
> >
> > Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Gnso-newgtld-wg <gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces at icann.org> mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces at icann.org on behalf of Maxim Alzoba <m.alzoba at gmail.com> mailto:m.alzoba at gmail.com
> > Date: Thursday 12 April 2018 at 09:13
> > To: "lists at christopherwilkinson.eu Wilkinson" mailto:lists at christopherwilkinson.euWilkinson <lists at christopherwilkinson.eu> mailto:lists at christopherwilkinson.eu
> > Cc: "gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org" mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org <gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org> mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org , Christopher Wilkinson <cw at christopherwilkinson.eu> mailto:cw at christopherwilkinson.eu
> > Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Deliberations and Recommendations - CW comments
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Christopher,
> >
> >
> >
> > I'd like to make a comment and a note.
> >
> >
> >
> > 1. a note about pricing for premium domains - 'picket fence' protects both registries and registrars from influence of policies on pricing
> >
> > (also direct price regulation from ICANN will lead to investigations of anti-monopoly agencies around the world[in some countries it will constitute a crime])
> >
> >
> >
> > 2. a comment on "Registry would be taking advantage of its monopoly over their TLD in question in an unjustifiably discriminatory manner."
> >
> > Fact that a particular company has a monopoly can be established only by the relevant market regulator.
> >
> > Registrants are free to choose another TLDs, if they are not happy with the terms of the particular ones.
> >
> > So assumptions that Registries are monopolists are not established facts and we can not use it.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Sincerely Yours,
> >
> > Maxim Alzoba
> > Special projects manager,
> > International Relations Department,
> > FAITID
> >
> > m. +7 916 6761580(+whatsapp)
> >
> > skype oldfrogger
> >
> >
> >
> > Current UTC offset: +3.00 (.Moscow)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > > >
> > > On 11 Apr 2018, at 23:51, lists at christopherwilkinson.eu mailto:lists at christopherwilkinson.eu Wilkinson <lists at christopherwilkinson.eu mailto:lists at christopherwilkinson.eu > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Good evening:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Allow me to amplify and confirm my few Chat comments during the conference call last Monday afternoon, 9 April 2018.
> > > >
> > > > In general the working document (1.12 Deliberations etc .) is an excursion into a working method with which I am quite unfamiliar, so I ask those of you who have this for your bread-and-butter to bear with me for a little while. I also have noted that the document is in the form of questions for discussion and not recommendations at this stage. So I hope that some of my comments may still be taken into account.
> > > >
> > > > Indeed, at some points, I find the drafting on some issues rather uncertain; there are ambiguities and options that - from the point of view of a rather more conventional approach – might be described as loopholes. ICANN and GNSO will no doubt have gathered that the next 'round' will be scrutinised by third parties far more thoroughly than was the case in 2004 or 2012. More specifically:
> > > >
> > > > 1. Rollout: It would be helpful to have information about how many new TLDs have still not been implemented, and why.
> > > >
> > > > For instance, after the 24 months allowed, it is not clear why “… extensions…should continue to be available according to the same terms and conditions as they were allowed during the 2012 round.”
> > > >
> > > > In a related question, “The Work Track was also careful to avoid drawing the conclusion that only having <nic.TLD> registered constituted 'squatting' or 'warehousing' “
> > > >
> > > > Taken together these two statements leave the strong impression that the Work Track would in practice accept squatting and warehousing of new TLDs. Was that intended?
> > > >
> > > > If there has been 'unwanted behaviour' – and the subsequent discussion suggests that there has been – then one might have expected a rather more proactive approach to discouraging such in the future.
> > > >
> > > > 2. Contractual compliance - pricing for premium domains.
> > > >
> > > > The document discusses the issue of 'pricing for premium domains' but reports that 'The WT has not reached any conclusions on this issue'. Whereas it is quite likely that applicant representations and related authorisations would address prmium pricing.
> > > >
> > > > For instance, in the case of a geographical name, there would normally be a presumption of non-discrimination between Registrants, such as towns or other communities, within that geo-TLD.
> > > >
> > > > More generally, ICANN might consider moving towards a policy whereby the economic 'rent' for a 'premium name' should accrue to the Registrant and not to the Registry. Otherwise it would appear that the Registry would be taking advantage of its monopoly over their TLD in question in an unjustifiably discriminatory manner.
> > > >
> > > > 3. Contractual compliance – enforceability of representations
> > > >
> > > > The document reports that the WT considered a proposal 'that all applicant representations should be included in the registry agreement' and that 'There was no agreement … in support of this proposal.'
> > > >
> > > > This would appear to be a rather weak conclusion which might be queried at a later stage because it does not really respond to the four questions indicated under f. Deliberations.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > *
> > > >
> > > > *
> > > >
> > > > *
> > > >
> > > > The above is but a summary of the main concerns evoked by this section of the draft. I look forward to discussing these and other aspects in due course.
> > > >
> > > > Christopher Wilkinson
> > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> --
> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
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> Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
>
> Volker A. Greimann
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