[Gnso-newgtld-wg] [Ext] RE: Notes and Action Items - New gTLD Subsequent Procedures PDP WG - 08 July 2019

Maxim Alzoba m.alzoba at gmail.com
Thu Jul 11 01:50:44 UTC 2019


Dear Steve, 

Just for clarity:

the document https://community.icann.org/display/NGSPP/4.6.1+Security+and+Stability?preview=/58735967/79433044/RSSAC031%20FINAL.pdf <https://community.icann.org/display/NGSPP/4.6.1+Security+and+Stability?preview=/58735967/79433044/RSSAC031%20FINAL.pdf>
does not have any provided basis (factually based and not limited to few words of 'our operational experiences') 
for 5% number at all, and contains words about 10k and 25k TLDs, and to say more:
 figure 3 gives 14% in one of the months, where Internet was not broken (despite being almost three time more than 5% delegation rate).

Talking about the Continuous Data-driven Analysis of Root Stability (CDAR) Deliverable D2: Root Stability Report, to which 
the previous document refer
https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/cdar-root-stability-final-08mar17-en.pdf <https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/cdar-root-stability-final-08mar17-en.pdf>
pages 41-> 61 does not have any explanation of 1000 or 5% numbers 
(all references to 5% in the document are not relevant to deployment rate).

The https://archive.icann.org/en/topics/new-gtlds/delegation-rate-scenarios-new-gtlds-06oct10-en.pdf <https://archive.icann.org/en/topics/new-gtlds/delegation-rate-scenarios-new-gtlds-06oct10-en.pdf>
staff paper was written before the new gTLD 2012 round and was based on prior plans
(which were changed quite severely: digital archery&batching, prioritization draw lottery, name collisions e.t.c.), 
and our WG is reviewing the results of what happened in the 2012 round (not the previous plans).

As I understand now limits (procedural and operational for application processing) are regarded by ICANN 
to be resolved via scalable structure (after all applications were more or less 'recovery cost based' and not expected to be lower next time).

So to avoid confusion we might want to use delegation rate and application /contract processing rates as separate ideas.

We should not conflate what happened with the reasons why it happened (the curve of delegations we see is not because it was decided to be kept at 5%).

Sincerely Yours,

Maxim Alzoba
Special projects manager,
International Relations Department,
FAITID

Current UTC offset: +3.00 (.Moscow)

> On 11 Jul 2019, at 01:24, Steve Chan <steve.chan at icann.org> wrote:
> 
> Dear Anne, Maxim,
>  
> To clarify a few things:
> The RSSAC did specify a percentage rate of change per month in their paper <https://community.icann.org/display/NGSPP/4.6.1+Security+and+Stability?preview=/58735967/79433044/RSSAC031%20FINAL.pdf> (see page 2) in the following text with my emphasis added: “The rate of change is more important than absolute magnitude. Based on historical trends since 2014 and our operational experiences, the RSSAC strongly recommends that the number of TLDs delegated in the root zone should not increase by more than about 5% per month, with the understanding that there may be minor variations from time-to-time.  The Appendix provides some data and context for this recommendation.”
> The RSSAC also states that, “Delegations “per annum” is the wrong way to think about the problem because it could lead to very sudden changes depending on its implementation. It would be better to think in terms of changes over smaller periods of time (e.g., monthly).”
>  
> The ~1000 delegation rate per year was identified as an operational limit in a staff paper <https://archive.icann.org/en/topics/new-gtlds/delegation-rate-scenarios-new-gtlds-06oct10-en.pdf> drafted in 2010. If memory serves, the technical communities considered whether or not that operational capacity rate of 1000 delegations per year represented a security and stability risk. I’ve not reviewed the relevant papers drafted at the time for exact language, but in brief, it was determined that 1000 delegations per year did not represent a security and stability risk. However, notably, the technical communities refrained from establishing some sort of absolute limit of delegations per year and would likely continue to refrain from doing so now (see bullet 2 above).
>  
> Hope the references to the RSSAC paper and brief bit of historical context is helpful.
>  
> Best,
> Steve
>  
> From: Gnso-newgtld-wg <gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces at icann.org> on behalf of Maxim Alzoba <m.alzoba at gmail.com>
> Date: Wednesday, July 10, 2019 at 2:51 PM
> To: "gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org" <gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org>
> Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] [Ext] RE: Notes and Action Items - New gTLD Subsequent Procedures PDP WG - 08 July 2019
>  
> Dear All, 
>  
> I will not be able to participate in the call, 
>  
> but if we ask SSAC and RSSAC about - "what number is the limit", 
> is should go with the words 
> "please provide factually based formula, preferably supported with the historical evidence" or equivalent of the same
> so it is not just opinion of persons, based of feelings (I am not sure it is applicable to IT industry), but on factually based evidence.
>  
> P.s: the number of 1000 did not have strict basis (from statistical or mathematical point of view).
>  
> Sincerely Yours,
> 
> Maxim Alzoba
> Special projects manager,
> International Relations Department,
> FAITID
>  
> Current UTC offset: +3.00 (.Moscow)
> 
> 
>> On 10 Jul 2019, at 23:43, Aikman-Scalese, Anne <AAikman at lrrc.com <mailto:AAikman at lrrc.com>> wrote:
>>  
>> Hi Katrin.  I see your point re “further work be done”.  It just struck me that we have not actually stated any recommendation about the rate of delegation and that we don’t know as a Working Group what that rate should be.   All we know is that from a technical standpoint, both RRSAC and SSAC have said that it is not the overall 1,000 cap that is the best indicator of stability.  Can we just ask SSAC and RSSAC to clarify what rate of delegation seems appropriate, e.g. adding X number of new Top Level Domains per month?
>>  
>> Thank you for catching this.
>> Anne
>>  
>> From: Gnso-newgtld-wg <gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces at icann.org <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces at icann.org>> On Behalf Of Katrin Ohlmer | DOTZON GmbH
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2019 6:59 AM
>> To: gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] [Ext] RE: Notes and Action Items - New gTLD Subsequent Procedures PDP WG - 08 July 2019
>>  
>> [EXTERNAL]
>> Dear All,
>>  
>> unfortunately, I will not be able to attend the call tomorrow.
>>  
>> But I wanted to provide my input on the comment Anne/Julie raised:
>> 
>> “The WG supports the RRSAC and SSAC advice that an overall cap of 1000 annually is not the appropriate measure of stability.  Rather, it is the rate of delegation (adding names to the root) and the WG recommends that further work be done on the appropriate rate of delegation from a technical standpoint.””
>>  
>> I’m not sure if this comment captured our discussions properly. Rather, it seems that this is one individual position, which is of course great to hear. Can the portion of “further work be done on the appropriate rate of delegation from a technical standpoint” be further detailed, i.e. conduct a study, ask SSAC for an advisory, or other means? So we can discuss whether we endorse this proposal?
>>  
>> Kind regards,
>> Katrin
>>  
>>  
>> DOTZON GmbH - digital identities for tomorrow
>> Akazienstrasse 28
>> 10823 Berlin
>> Deutschland - Germany
>> Tel: +49 30 49802722
>> Fax: +49 30 49802727
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>>  
>> Von: Gnso-newgtld-wg <gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces at icann.org <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces at icann.org>> Im Auftrag von Julie Hedlund
>> Gesendet: Dienstag, 9. Juli 2019 21:04
>> An: Aikman-Scalese, Anne <AAikman at lrrc.com <mailto:AAikman at lrrc.com>>; Jim Prendergast <jim at GALWAYSG.COM <mailto:jim at GALWAYSG.COM>>; gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org>
>> Betreff: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] [Ext] RE: Notes and Action Items - New gTLD Subsequent Procedures PDP WG - 08 July 2019
>>  
>> Thanks Anne.
>>  
>> Dear all,
>>  
>> Just bringing Anne’s suggested language back to the top of the post here for review:
>>  
>> ACTION ITEM: Delegation rates: Discuss what to say instead of a limit of 1000, such as the rate of change.  See language from Anne Aikman-Scalese: “The WG supports the RRSAC and SSAC advice that an overall cap of 1000 annually is not the appropriate measure of stability.  Rather, it is the rate of delegation (adding names to the root) and the WG recommends that further work be done on the appropriate rate of delegation from a technical standpoint.”
>>  
>> Best,
>> Julie
>>  
>> From: "Aikman-Scalese, Anne" <AAikman at lrrc.com <mailto:AAikman at lrrc.com>>
>> Date: Tuesday, July 9, 2019 at 1:36 PM
>> To: Julie Hedlund <julie.hedlund at icann.org <mailto:julie.hedlund at icann.org>>, Jim Prendergast <jim at GALWAYSG.COM <mailto:jim at GALWAYSG.COM>>, "gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org>" <gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org>>
>> Subject: RE: [Ext] RE: Notes and Action Items - New gTLD Subsequent Procedures PDP WG - 08 July 2019
>>  
>> I agree with Jim’s email below and with Julie’s recommendation in chat yesterday.  I think that when the WG agrees on the specific language re the cap (as to which I sent a draft in chat yesterday), the full “high level agreement” language should be sent to both RSSAC and SSAC for comment clarification.  Julie rightly pointed out that this was a reasonable approach and Jim is correct that it avoids future delays.
>>  
>> Anne
>>  
>> From: Gnso-newgtld-wg <gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces at icann.org <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces at icann.org>> On Behalf Of Julie Hedlund
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 9, 2019 5:30 AM
>> To: Jim Prendergast <jim at GALWAYSG.COM <mailto:jim at GALWAYSG.COM>>; gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] [Ext] RE: Notes and Action Items - New gTLD Subsequent Procedures PDP WG - 08 July 2019
>>  
>> [EXTERNAL]
>> Many thanks for the helpful clarification Jim.
>>  
>> Kind regards,
>> Julie
>>  
>> From: Jim Prendergast <jim at GALWAYSG.COM <mailto:jim at GALWAYSG.COM>>
>> Date: Tuesday, July 9, 2019 at 5:36 AM
>> To: Julie Hedlund <julie.hedlund at icann.org <mailto:julie.hedlund at icann.org>>, "gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org>" <gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org>>
>> Subject: [Ext] RE: Notes and Action Items - New gTLD Subsequent Procedures PDP WG - 08 July 2019
>>  
>> Thanks Julie
>>  
>> One edit under notes – “Could ask RSSAC and SSAC whether the WG’s recommendations are consistent with their advice (relating to the third bullet point under High Level Agreements).”
>>  
>> My recommendation was for the WG to send the entire section dealing with Root Scaling to the SSAC and RSSAC for a quick look to ensure we have accurately captured their sentiment and the interplay between both of their work on this topic.  Not just the 3rd bullet point.  
>>  
>> I agree with your suggestion that we not look for formal “advice” but with the revelation that in Marrakech members of the SSAC were surprised that eliminating the 1,000 per year delegation limit was on the table, I do think we need a right track/wrong track assessment and feedback from both groups due to the highly technical nature of this material and the importance it plays in the ICANN assumptions as well as pace of the overall program.
>>  
>> They can review the material in parallel while we are working on the other material ahead of us so no risk to the timeline.
>>  
>> Thanks
>>  
>> Jim Prendergast
>> The Galway Strategy Group
>> +1 202 285 3699
>> @jimpren
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> From: Gnso-newgtld-wg <gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces at icann.org <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-bounces at icann.org>> On Behalf Of Julie Hedlund
>> Sent: Monday, July 08, 2019 5:31 PM
>> To: gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg at icann.org>
>> Subject: [Gnso-newgtld-wg] Notes and Action Items - New gTLD Subsequent Procedures PDP WG - 08 July 2019
>>  
>> Dear Working Group members,
>>  
>> Please see below the notes from the meeting today, 08 July 2019. These high-level notes are designed to help WG members navigate through the content of the call and are not a substitute for the recording, transcript, or the chat, which will be posted at: https://community.icann.org/display/NGSPP/2019-07-08+New+gTLD+Subsequent+Procedures+PDP <https://community.icann.org/display/NGSPP/2019-07-08+New+gTLD+Subsequent+Procedures+PDP>.
>>   
>> Kind regards,
>> Julie
>> Julie Hedlund, Policy Director
>>  
>> Notes and Action Items:
>>  
>> Action Items:
>>  
>> ACTION ITEM: Leadership to send a note to Cyrus and Trang asking what is the best way to send comments on the ICANN Org/GDD Assumptions document.  State that we are still in discussion on topics in your assumptions, such as annual window or delegation rates, so it may be premature to assume concerning those subjects.
>>  
>> ACTION ITEM: GAC formally advised the Board re: need for a formal cost/benefit analysis of the new gTLD Program before launching another round.  Check on how the Board has responded.  Status of Advice to the Board per Board scorecard appears here:  https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/board-advice-status-report-pdf-31may19-en.pdf [icann.org] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_en_system_files_files_board-2Dadvice-2Dstatus-2Dreport-2Dpdf-2D31may19-2Den.pdf&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=adDIs0WEx_lLwFfrsdovxTYY8GkRHo5ibc8SR3Npdh8&m=n_Y8FFbRxrx3WY2OjVvaf_AE6qHAPD6I1iYmS3nXK6c&s=LkyzQi0kx4evo13jZwak5VoQJGjzSVTP_I6XK83iCaU&e=> 
>>  
>> ACTION ITEM: Delegation rates: Discuss what to say instead of a limit of 1000, such as the rate of change.  See language from Anne Aikman-Scalese: “The WG supports the RRSAC and SSAC advice that an overall cap of 1000 annually is not the appropriate measure of stability.  Rather, it is the rate of delegation (adding names to the root) and the WG recommends that further work be done on the appropriate rate of delegation from a technical standpoint.”
>>  
>> Notes:
>>  
>> 1. Updates to Statements of Interest (SOIs): No updates provided.
>>  
>> 2. Update from ICANN65
>>  
>> Session 1:  
>> -- Discussion on ICANN Org/GDD assumptions to begin preliminary planning for the next round on new gTLDs.  ICANN Org is seeking feedback.  
>> -- Will the WG be responding to it?  Not sure if the WG needs to respond.  
>> -- Perhaps WG Co-Chairs could send thoughts to the Council.  Council is expecting an update on GDD before determining if, and on what, they would respond.  
>> -- WG may need to get back if there is anything counter to the WG recommendations.
>> -- WG Co-Chairs provided an update to the GAC Focal Group.  See:  https://65.schedule.icann.org/meetings/1058193 [65.schedule.icann.org] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__65.schedule.icann.org_meetings_1058193&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=adDIs0WEx_lLwFfrsdovxTYY8GkRHo5ibc8SR3Npdh8&m=n_Y8FFbRxrx3WY2OjVvaf_AE6qHAPD6I1iYmS3nXK6c&s=GOyXrHM3-Q6n8C1DRmHlMJukqDOZSZ9o2Gbmn05Jh08&e=>
>> -- Question: GAC formally advised the Board re need for a formal cost/benefit analysis of the new gTLD Program before launching another round.  How has the Board responded to that? Did they delegate to the GNSO? Answer: The WG has not been delegated with this question.
>>  
>> 3. Topics Connected to GDD's draft assumptions for implementation efforts -- Delegation Rates (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Q6_DxsCvSA_3B7ArncO2U4tWNY3vH7Wi4nINrouR4AI/edit?usp=sharing [docs.google.com] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__docs.google.com_document_d_1Q6-5FDxsCvSA-5F3B7ArncO2U4tWNY3vH7Wi4nINrouR4AI_edit-3Fusp-3Dsharing&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=adDIs0WEx_lLwFfrsdovxTYY8GkRHo5ibc8SR3Npdh8&m=n_Y8FFbRxrx3WY2OjVvaf_AE6qHAPD6I1iYmS3nXK6c&s=JB2M3uQ7NgGWZjryGe9mKCyayqTBJAvDMe7Ox1N7gVY&e=>)
>>  
>> Root Scaling:
>> -- Question: Regarding the delegation rates in the last round, do we know what was the highest number of delegations performed in a single day? That may guide us on whether the annual figure could be changed upwards.
>> -- Policy goals have not changed.  
>> -- SSAC and RSSAC are in agreement: it is the rate of change -- SSAC Response: https://community.icann.org/display/NGSPP/4.6.1+Security+and+Stability?preview=/58735967/79433327/sac-100-en.pdf <https://community.icann.org/display/NGSPP/4.6.1+Security+and+Stability?preview=/58735967/79433327/sac-100-en.pdf>
>> -- Could ask RSSAC and SSAC whether the WG’s recommendations are consistent with their advice (relating to the third bullet point under High Level Agreements).
>> -- Could say that we have not found a technical rationale for limiting to 1000 delegations per year.  The important factor is the rate of delegation.  If we don’t use the number 1000, how do we replace it?
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> 
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