[Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] definitions of relay, publication, reveal
Kathy Kleiman
kathy at kathykleiman.com
Tue Feb 11 15:07:33 UTC 2014
Hi All,
Sorry not to be on the call, but I don't think that Gema's statement is
a paraphrase of the RAA, particularly the idea of revealing the identity
of the domain licensee upon reasonable evidence of actionable harm or
risk liability for resulting harm. Terms of reference for a study are
hardly RAA language (Note: I worked on many of the study's terms of
reference -- but not on the RAA).
Best,
Kathy
:
>
> I am not sure why Michele is so wound up about this, but the statement
> that Gema quoted (she did not create it) seems to be a reasonable
> paraphrase of a provision that has been in the RAA since its inception
> (with minor changes in the 2009 and 2013 versions).
>
> The problem I believe she was attempting to flag is that this
> statement has to do with "reveal" and does not have any reference to
> "relay."
>
> I think the definition of "relay" (taking out the sentence in
> question) is reasonably clear, but if Gema or others have suggesttions
> for clarifying it, they should certainly bring them forward.
>
> Steve Metalitz
>
> *From:*gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org
> [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] *On Behalf Of *Marika Konings
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 11, 2014 9:25 AM
> *To:* Michele Neylon - Blacknight; Campillos Gonzalez, Gema Maria
> *Cc:* gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] definitions of relay, publication,
> reveal
>
> Please note that the language that Gema provided is a quote from the
> attached document which was prepared by a GNSO DT in 2009. You may
> need to go back to that DT to determine how that conclusion was drawn
> based on the RAA provisions.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Marika
>
> *From: *Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele at blacknight.com
> <mailto:michele at blacknight.com>>
> *Date: *Tuesday 11 February 2014 15:19
> *To: *Marika Konings <marika.konings at icann.org
> <mailto:marika.konings at icann.org>>, "Campillos Gonzalez, Gema Maria"
> <GCAMPILLOS at minetur.es <mailto:GCAMPILLOS at minetur.es>>
> *Cc: *"gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org
> <mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>" <gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org
> <mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>>
> *Subject: *RE: definitions of relay, publication, reveal
>
> That doesn't oblige the reveal and would only apply to proxy services
> not privacy services
>
> If the service assumes the liability they've no obligation to reveal,
> so I ask again Gema -- where are you getting the obligation from?
> Which clause in the RAA?
>
> FYI -- the only RAA version we should care about is the 2013 as this
> entire thing hinges on it and not any of the previous version
>
> --
>
> Mr Michele Neylon
>
> Blacknight Solutions
>
> Hosting & Colocation, Domains
>
> http://www.blacknight.co/
>
> http://blog.blacknight.com/
>
> http://www.technology.ie
>
> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072
>
> Locall: 1850 929 929
>
> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
>
> Fax. +353 (0) 1 4811 763
>
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/mneylon
>
> -------------------------------
>
> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business
> Park,Sleaty
>
> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
>
> *From:*Marika Konings [mailto:marika.konings at icann.org]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 11, 2014 2:15 PM
> *To:* Michele Neylon - Blacknight; Campillos Gonzalez, Gema Maria
> *Cc:* gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org <mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>
> *Subject:* Re: definitions of relay, publication, reveal
>
> Michele, I found this language in the 2001 RAA:
>
> 3.7.7.3 Any Registered Name Holder that intends to license use of a
> domain name to a third party is nonetheless the Registered Name Holder
> of record and is responsible for providing its own full contact
> information and for providing and updating accurate technical and
> administrative contact information adequate to facilitate timely
> resolution of any problems that arise in connection with the
> Registered Name. A Registered Name Holder licensing use of a
> Registered Name according to this provision shall accept liability for
> harm caused by wrongful use of the Registered Name, unless it promptly
> discloses the identity of the licensee to a party providing the
> Registered Name Holder reasonable evidence of actionable harm.
>
> And in the 2009 RAA:
>
> 3.7.7.3 Any Registered Name Holder that intends to license use of a
> domain name to a third party is nonetheless the Registered Name Holder
> of record and is responsible for providing its own full contact
> information and for providing and updating accurate technical and
> administrative contact information adequate to facilitate timely
> resolution of any problems that arise in connection with the
> Registered Name. A Registered Name Holder licensing use of a
> Registered Name according to this provision shall accept liability for
> harm caused by wrongful use of the Registered Name, unless it promptly
> discloses the current contact information provided by the licensee and
> the identity of the licensee to a party providing the Registered Name
> Holder reasonable evidence of actionable harm.
>
> And the 2013 RAA:
>
> 3.7.7.3 Any Registered Name Holder that intends to license use of a
> domain name to a third party is nonetheless the Registered Name Holder
> of record and is responsible for providing its own full contact
> information and for providing and updating accurate technical and
> administrative contact information adequate to facilitate timely
> resolution of any problems that arise in connection with the
> Registered Name. A Registered Name Holder licensing use of a
> Registered Name according to this provision shall accept liability for
> harm caused by wrongful use of the Registered Name, unless it
> discloses the current contact information provided by the licensee and
> the identity of the licensee within seven (7) days to a party
> providing the Registered Name Holder reasonable evidence of actionable
> harm.
>
> Presumably that is the provision referenced?
>
> Marika
>
> *From: *Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele at blacknight.com
> <mailto:michele at blacknight.com>>
> *Date: *Tuesday 11 February 2014 15:06
> *To: *Marika Konings <marika.konings at icann.org
> <mailto:marika.konings at icann.org>>, "Campillos Gonzalez, Gema Maria"
> <GCAMPILLOS at minetur.es <mailto:GCAMPILLOS at minetur.es>>
> *Cc: *"gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org
> <mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>" <gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org
> <mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>>
> *Subject: *RE: definitions of relay, publication, reveal
>
> So it's not in the RAA then is it?
>
> Regards
>
> Michele
>
> --
>
> Mr Michele Neylon
>
> Blacknight Solutions
>
> Hosting & Colocation, Domains
>
> http://www.blacknight.co/
>
> http://blog.blacknight.com/
>
> http://www.technology.ie
>
> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072
>
> Locall: 1850 929 929
>
> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
>
> Fax. +353 (0) 1 4811 763
>
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/mneylon
>
> -------------------------------
>
> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business
> Park,Sleaty
>
> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
>
> *From:*Marika Konings [mailto:marika.konings at icann.org]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 11, 2014 1:59 PM
> *To:* Michele Neylon - Blacknight; Campillos Gonzalez, Gema Maria
> *Cc:* gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org <mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>
> *Subject:* Re: definitions of relay, publication, reveal
>
> Michele, the reference comes from a document that was produced in
> February 2009, so presumably it is referring to an earlier version of
> the RAA.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Marika
>
> *From: *Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele at blacknight.com
> <mailto:michele at blacknight.com>>
> *Date: *Tuesday 11 February 2014 14:56
> *To: *"Campillos Gonzalez, Gema Maria" <GCAMPILLOS at minetur.es
> <mailto:GCAMPILLOS at minetur.es>>, Marika Konings
> <marika.konings at icann.org <mailto:marika.konings at icann.org>>
> *Cc: *"gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org
> <mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>" <gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org
> <mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>>
> *Subject: *RE: definitions of relay, publication, reveal
>
> Gema
>
> Which clause in the RAA stipulates this?
>
> I'm looking at the 2013 RAA's proxy / privacy specification and I
> cannot see this.
>
> Regards
>
> Michele
>
> --
>
> Mr Michele Neylon
>
> Blacknight Solutions
>
> Hosting & Colocation, Domains
>
> http://www.blacknight.co/
>
> http://blog.blacknight.com/
>
> http://www.technology.ie
>
> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072
>
> Locall: 1850 929 929
>
> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
>
> Fax. +353 (0) 1 4811 763
>
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/mneylon
>
> -------------------------------
>
> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business
> Park,Sleaty
>
> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
>
> *From:*gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org
> <mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>
> [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] *On Behalf Of *Campillos
> Gonzalez, Gema Maria
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 11, 2014 12:35 PM
> *To:* Marika Konings
> *Cc:* gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org <mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] definitions of relay, publication,
> reveal
>
> Yes, I´ve seen this, Marika, but it only defines "relay" and in a very
> confusing way, mixing it with "reveal".
>
> 5) Relay Information Requests
>
> See study # 20 for this term's use in context.
>
> Problems arise from time to time in connection with registered names.
> Allegations of
>
> actionable harm require copyright and trademark owners, law
> enforcement officials and
>
> others to be able to operate through a proxy or privacy service
> provider to contact the
>
> domain name user. Potential "harms" could include suspected fraud,
> intellectual property
>
> rights infringement, or the infringement of other civil or criminal
> laws. To support the
>
> relay of information requests, service providers must have reliable
> and timely means of
>
> communicating with their domain licensees.*The ICANN Registrar
> Accreditation*
>
> *Agreement stipulates that the proxy registrant reveal the identity of
> the domain licensee*
>
> *upon reasonable evidence of actionable harm or risk liability for
> resulting harm.*
>
> So, I insist definitions of "relay", "reveal" and "publication" are
> included in the "Grouping of Charter Questions" paper or else,
> referenced to a document that provides its meaning in the context of
> Proxy-Privacy Services.
>
> Thank you again and best regards,
>
> Gema
>
> *De:*Marika Konings [mailto:marika.konings at icann.org]
> *Enviado el:* martes, 11 de febrero de 2014 13:16
> *Para:* Campillos Gonzalez, Gema Maria
> *Asunto:* Re: definitions of relay, publication, reveal
>
> Dear Gema,
>
> I think that refers to the attached document which is also posted on
> the WG wiki (background documents -- see
> https://community.icann.org/x/XSWfAg).
>
> Best regards,
>
> Marika
>
> *From: *"<Campillos Gonzalez>", Gema Maria <GCAMPILLOS at minetur.es
> <mailto:GCAMPILLOS at minetur.es>>
> *Date: *Tuesday 11 February 2014 12:50
> *To: *Marika Konings <marika.konings at icann.org
> <mailto:marika.konings at icann.org>>
> *Subject: *definitions of relay, publication, reveal
>
> Dear Marika,
>
> Where exactly can I find the definitions for the terms in the heading?
> In footnote 7 of the "Grouping of Charter Questions" paper, there is a
> reference to the "Terms of Reference for GNSO Whois Studies (refer to
> WG Background Documents).", but I am not able to find that document.
> Could you please point me to the paper I have to look up?
>
> Thank you so much,
>
> Gema
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing list
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