[Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] definitions of relay, publication, reveal

Tue Feb 11 16:06:16 UTC 2014

A question re. the last couple of minutes on today's call; I'd not noticed
till then that Gema suggested deleting "if requestor is law enforcement
versus private party" from Section V, question e.

I do not support dropping this rather important topic from our work at this
late stage in the work plan discussions. Is that what is proposed?

Apologies if I have missed the point here. I don't want to derail the WG as
we have more or less reached agreement on the work plan. I expect no
substantive change to the WG's work plan is proposed, but I would like to
be sure.

All the best, Maria

On 11 February 2014 15:07, Kathy Kleiman <kathy at kathykleiman.com> wrote:

>  Hi All,
> Sorry not to be on the call, but I don't think that Gema's statement is a
> paraphrase of the RAA, particularly the idea of revealing the identity of
> the domain licensee upon reasonable evidence of actionable harm or risk
> liability for resulting harm. Terms of reference for a study are hardly RAA
> language (Note: I worked on many of the study's terms of reference -- but
> not on the RAA).
>
> Best,
> Kathy
>
> :
>
>  I am not sure why Michele is so wound up about this, but the statement
> that Gema quoted (she did not create it) seems to be a reasonable
> paraphrase of a provision that has been in the RAA since its inception
> (with minor changes in the 2009 and 2013 versions).
>
>
>
> The problem I believe she was attempting to flag is that this statement
> has to do with "reveal" and does not have any reference to "relay."
>
>
>
> I think the definition of "relay" (taking out the sentence in question) is
> reasonably clear, but if Gema or others have suggesttions for clarifying
> it,  they should certainly bring them forward.
>
>
>
> Steve Metalitz
>
>
>
> *From:* gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org [
> mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org<gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>]
> *On Behalf Of *Marika Konings
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 11, 2014 9:25 AM
> *To:* Michele Neylon - Blacknight; Campillos Gonzalez, Gema Maria
> *Cc:* gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] definitions of relay, publication,
> reveal
>
>
>
> Please note that the language that Gema provided is a quote from the
> attached document which was prepared by a GNSO DT in 2009. You may need to
> go back to that DT to determine how that conclusion was drawn based on the
> RAA provisions.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
>
> Marika
>
>
>
> *From: *Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele at blacknight.com>
> *Date: *Tuesday 11 February 2014 15:19
> *To: *Marika Konings <marika.konings at icann.org>, "Campillos Gonzalez,
> Gema Maria" <GCAMPILLOS at minetur.es>
> *Cc: *"gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org" <gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>
> *Subject: *RE: definitions of relay, publication, reveal
>
>
>
> That doesn't oblige the reveal and would only apply to proxy services not
> privacy services
>
> If the service assumes the liability they've no obligation to reveal, so I
> ask again Gema - where are you getting the obligation from? Which clause in
> the RAA?
>
>
>
> FYI - the only RAA version we should care about is the 2013 as this entire
> thing hinges on it and not any of the previous version
>
>
>
> --
>
> Mr Michele Neylon
>
> Blacknight Solutions
>
> Hosting & Colocation, Domains
>
> http://www.blacknight.co/
>
> http://blog.blacknight.com/
>
> http://www.technology.ie
>
> Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072
>
> Locall: 1850 929 929
>
> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
>
> Fax. +353 (0) 1 4811 763
>
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/mneylon
>
> -------------------------------
>
> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
>
> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland  Company No.: 370845
>
>
>
> *From:* Marika Konings [mailto:marika.konings at icann.org<marika.konings at icann.org>]
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 11, 2014 2:15 PM
> *To:* Michele Neylon - Blacknight; Campillos Gonzalez, Gema Maria
> *Cc:* gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org
> *Subject:* Re: definitions of relay, publication, reveal
>
>
>
> Michele, I found this language in the 2001 RAA:
>
>
>
> 3.7.7.3 Any Registered Name Holder that intends to license use of a domain
> name to a third party is nonetheless the Registered Name Holder of record
> and is responsible for providing its own full contact information and for
> providing and updating accurate technical and administrative contact
> information adequate to facilitate timely resolution of any problems that
> arise in connection with the Registered Name. A Registered Name Holder
> licensing use of a Registered Name according to this provision shall accept
> liability for harm caused by wrongful use of the Registered Name, unless it
> promptly discloses the identity of the licensee to a party providing the
> Registered Name Holder reasonable evidence of actionable harm.
>
>
>
> And in the 2009 RAA:
>
>
>
> 3.7.7.3 Any Registered Name Holder that intends to license use of a domain
> name to a third party is nonetheless the Registered Name Holder of record
> and is responsible for providing its own full contact information and for
> providing and updating accurate technical and administrative contact
> information adequate to facilitate timely resolution of any problems that
> arise in connection with the Registered Name. A Registered Name Holder
> licensing use of a Registered Name according to this provision shall accept
> liability for harm caused by wrongful use of the Registered Name, unless it
> promptly discloses the current contact information provided by the licensee
> and the identity of the licensee to a party providing the Registered Name
> Holder reasonable evidence of actionable harm.
>
>
>
> And the 2013 RAA:
>
>
>
> 3.7.7.3 Any Registered Name Holder that intends to license use of a domain
> name to a third party is nonetheless the Registered Name Holder of record
> and is responsible for providing its own full contact information and for
> providing and updating accurate technical and administrative contact
> information adequate to facilitate timely resolution of any problems that
> arise in connection with the Registered Name. A Registered Name Holder
> licensing use of a Registered Name according to this provision shall accept
> liability for harm caused by wrongful use of the Registered Name, unless it
> discloses the current contact information provided by the licensee and the
> identity of the licensee within seven (7) days to a party providing the
> Registered Name Holder reasonable evidence of actionable harm.
>
>
>
> Presumably that is the provision referenced?
>
>
>
> Marika
>
>
>
> *From: *Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele at blacknight.com>
> *Date: *Tuesday 11 February 2014 15:06
> *To: *Marika Konings <marika.konings at icann.org>, "Campillos Gonzalez,
> Gema Maria" <GCAMPILLOS at minetur.es>
> *Cc: *"gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org" <gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>
> *Subject: *RE: definitions of relay, publication, reveal
>
>
>
> So it's not in the RAA then is it?
>
>
>
> Regards
>
>
>
> Michele
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Mr Michele Neylon
>
> Blacknight Solutions
>
> Hosting & Colocation, Domains
>
> http://www.blacknight.co/
>
> http://blog.blacknight.com/
>
> http://www.technology.ie
>
> Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072
>
> Locall: 1850 929 929
>
> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
>
> Fax. +353 (0) 1 4811 763
>
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/mneylon
>
> -------------------------------
>
> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
>
> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland  Company No.: 370845
>
>
>
> *From:* Marika Konings [mailto:marika.konings at icann.org<marika.konings at icann.org>]
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 11, 2014 1:59 PM
> *To:* Michele Neylon - Blacknight; Campillos Gonzalez, Gema Maria
> *Cc:* gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org
> *Subject:* Re: definitions of relay, publication, reveal
>
>
>
> Michele, the reference comes from a document that was produced in February
> 2009, so presumably it is referring to an earlier version of the RAA.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
>
> Marika
>
>
>
> *From: *Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele at blacknight.com>
> *Date: *Tuesday 11 February 2014 14:56
> *To: *"Campillos Gonzalez, Gema Maria" <GCAMPILLOS at minetur.es>, Marika
> Konings <marika.konings at icann.org>
> *Cc: *"gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org" <gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>
> *Subject: *RE: definitions of relay, publication, reveal
>
>
>
> Gema
>
>
>
> Which clause in the RAA stipulates this?
>
>
>
> I'm looking at the 2013 RAA's proxy / privacy specification and I cannot
> see this.
>
>
>
> Regards
>
>
>
> Michele
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Mr Michele Neylon
>
> Blacknight Solutions
>
> Hosting & Colocation, Domains
>
> http://www.blacknight.co/
>
> http://blog.blacknight.com/
>
> http://www.technology.ie
>
> Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072
>
> Locall: 1850 929 929
>
> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
>
> Fax. +353 (0) 1 4811 763
>
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/mneylon
>
> -------------------------------
>
> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
>
> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland  Company No.: 370845
>
>
>
> *From:*gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org [
> mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org<gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>]
> *On Behalf Of *Campillos Gonzalez, Gema Maria
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 11, 2014 12:35 PM
> *To:* Marika Konings
> *Cc:* gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] definitions of relay, publication,
> reveal
>
>
>
> Yes, I´ve seen this, Marika, but it only defines "relay" and in a very
> confusing way, mixing it with "reveal".
>
>
>
> 5) Relay Information Requests
>
> See study # 20 for this term's use in context.
>
> Problems arise from time to time in connection with registered names.
> Allegations of
>
> actionable harm require copyright and trademark owners, law enforcement
> officials and
>
> others to be able to operate through a proxy or privacy service provider
> to contact the
>
> domain name user. Potential "harms" could include suspected fraud,
> intellectual property
>
> rights infringement, or the infringement of other civil or criminal laws.
> To support the
>
> relay of information requests, service providers must have reliable and
> timely means of
>
> communicating with their domain licensees.* The ICANN Registrar
> Accreditation*
>
> *Agreement stipulates that the proxy registrant reveal the identity of the
> domain licensee*
>
> *upon reasonable evidence of actionable harm or risk liability for
> resulting harm.*
>
>
>
> So, I insist definitions of "relay", "reveal" and "publication" are
> included in the "Grouping of Charter Questions" paper or else, referenced
> to a document that provides its meaning in the context of Proxy-Privacy
> Services.
>
>
>
> Thank you again and best regards,
>
>
>
>
>
> Gema
>
>
>
> *De:* Marika Konings [mailto:marika.konings at icann.org<marika.konings at icann.org>]
>
> *Enviado el:* martes, 11 de febrero de 2014 13:16
> *Para:* Campillos Gonzalez, Gema Maria
> *Asunto:* Re: definitions of relay, publication, reveal
>
>
>
> Dear Gema,
>
>
>
> I think that refers to the attached document which is also posted on the
> WG wiki (background documents - see https://community.icann.org/x/XSWfAg).
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
>
> Marika
>
>
>
> *From: *"<Campillos Gonzalez>", Gema Maria <GCAMPILLOS at minetur.es>
> *Date: *Tuesday 11 February 2014 12:50
> *To: *Marika Konings <marika.konings at icann.org>
> *Subject: *definitions of relay, publication, reveal
>
>
>
> Dear Marika,
>
>
>
> Where exactly can I find the definitions for the terms in the heading? In
> footnote 7 of the "Grouping of Charter Questions" paper, there is a
> reference to the "Terms of Reference for GNSO Whois Studies (refer to WG
> Background Documents).", but I am not able to find that document. Could you
> please point me to the paper I have to look up?
>
>
>
> Thank you so much,
>
>
>
> Gema
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
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