[Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] definitions of relay, publication, reveal

Tue Feb 11 16:42:03 UTC 2014

What Gema deleted from item 2(e) is repetitive of item 2(c) in the same listing (section V, item 2).

From: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Maria Farrell
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 11:06 AM
To: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org
Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] definitions of relay, publication, reveal

A question re. the last couple of minutes on today's call; I'd not noticed till then that Gema suggested deleting "if requestor is law enforcement versus private party" from Section V, question e.
I do not support dropping this rather important topic from our work at this late stage in the work plan discussions. Is that what is proposed?

Apologies if I have missed the point here. I don't want to derail the WG as we have more or less reached agreement on the work plan. I expect no substantive change to the WG's work plan is proposed, but I would like to be sure.
All the best, Maria

On 11 February 2014 15:07, Kathy Kleiman <kathy at kathykleiman.com<mailto:kathy at kathykleiman.com>> wrote:
Hi All,
Sorry not to be on the call, but I don't think that Gema's statement is a paraphrase of the RAA, particularly the idea of revealing the identity of the domain licensee upon reasonable evidence of actionable harm or risk liability for resulting harm. Terms of reference for a study are hardly RAA language (Note: I worked on many of the study's terms of reference -- but not on the RAA).

Best,
Kathy

:
I am not sure why Michele is so wound up about this, but the statement that Gema quoted (she did not create it) seems to be a reasonable paraphrase of a provision that has been in the RAA since its inception (with minor changes in the 2009 and 2013 versions).

The problem I believe she was attempting to flag is that this statement has to do with "reveal" and does not have any reference to "relay."

I think the definition of "relay" (taking out the sentence in question) is reasonably clear, but if Gema or others have suggesttions for clarifying it,  they should certainly bring them forward.

Steve Metalitz

From: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org> [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Marika Konings
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 9:25 AM
To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; Campillos Gonzalez, Gema Maria
Cc: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>
Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] definitions of relay, publication, reveal

Please note that the language that Gema provided is a quote from the attached document which was prepared by a GNSO DT in 2009. You may need to go back to that DT to determine how that conclusion was drawn based on the RAA provisions.

Best regards,

Marika

From: Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele at blacknight.com<mailto:michele at blacknight.com>>
Date: Tuesday 11 February 2014 15:19
To: Marika Konings <marika.konings at icann.org<mailto:marika.konings at icann.org>>, "Campillos Gonzalez, Gema Maria" <GCAMPILLOS at minetur.es<mailto:GCAMPILLOS at minetur.es>>
Cc: "gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>" <gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>>
Subject: RE: definitions of relay, publication, reveal

That doesn't oblige the reveal and would only apply to proxy services not privacy services
If the service assumes the liability they've no obligation to reveal, so I ask again Gema - where are you getting the obligation from? Which clause in the RAA?

FYI - the only RAA version we should care about is the 2013 as this entire thing hinges on it and not any of the previous version

--
Mr Michele Neylon
Blacknight Solutions
Hosting & Colocation, Domains
http://www.blacknight.co/
http://blog.blacknight.com/
http://www.technology.ie
Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072<tel:%2B353%20%280%29%2059%20%C2%A09183072>
Locall: 1850 929 929
Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090<tel:%2B353%20%280%2959%209183090>
Fax. +353 (0) 1 4811 763<tel:%2B353%20%280%29%201%204811%20763>
Twitter: http://twitter.com/mneylon
-------------------------------
Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland  Company No.: 370845

From: Marika Konings [mailto:marika.konings at icann.org]
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 2:15 PM
To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; Campillos Gonzalez, Gema Maria
Cc: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>
Subject: Re: definitions of relay, publication, reveal

Michele, I found this language in the 2001 RAA:

3.7.7.3 Any Registered Name Holder that intends to license use of a domain name to a third party is nonetheless the Registered Name Holder of record and is responsible for providing its own full contact information and for providing and updating accurate technical and administrative contact information adequate to facilitate timely resolution of any problems that arise in connection with the Registered Name. A Registered Name Holder licensing use of a Registered Name according to this provision shall accept liability for harm caused by wrongful use of the Registered Name, unless it promptly discloses the identity of the licensee to a party providing the Registered Name Holder reasonable evidence of actionable harm.

And in the 2009 RAA:

3.7.7.3 Any Registered Name Holder that intends to license use of a domain name to a third party is nonetheless the Registered Name Holder of record and is responsible for providing its own full contact information and for providing and updating accurate technical and administrative contact information adequate to facilitate timely resolution of any problems that arise in connection with the Registered Name. A Registered Name Holder licensing use of a Registered Name according to this provision shall accept liability for harm caused by wrongful use of the Registered Name, unless it promptly discloses the current contact information provided by the licensee and the identity of the licensee to a party providing the Registered Name Holder reasonable evidence of actionable harm.

And the 2013 RAA:

3.7.7.3 Any Registered Name Holder that intends to license use of a domain name to a third party is nonetheless the Registered Name Holder of record and is responsible for providing its own full contact information and for providing and updating accurate technical and administrative contact information adequate to facilitate timely resolution of any problems that arise in connection with the Registered Name. A Registered Name Holder licensing use of a Registered Name according to this provision shall accept liability for harm caused by wrongful use of the Registered Name, unless it discloses the current contact information provided by the licensee and the identity of the licensee within seven (7) days to a party providing the Registered Name Holder reasonable evidence of actionable harm.

Presumably that is the provision referenced?

Marika

From: Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele at blacknight.com<mailto:michele at blacknight.com>>
Date: Tuesday 11 February 2014 15:06
To: Marika Konings <marika.konings at icann.org<mailto:marika.konings at icann.org>>, "Campillos Gonzalez, Gema Maria" <GCAMPILLOS at minetur.es<mailto:GCAMPILLOS at minetur.es>>
Cc: "gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>" <gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>>
Subject: RE: definitions of relay, publication, reveal

So it's not in the RAA then is it?

Regards

Michele

--
Mr Michele Neylon
Blacknight Solutions
Hosting & Colocation, Domains
http://www.blacknight.co/
http://blog.blacknight.com/
http://www.technology.ie
Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072<tel:%2B353%20%280%29%2059%C2%A0%209183072>
Locall: 1850 929 929
Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090<tel:%2B353%20%280%2959%209183090>
Fax. +353 (0) 1 4811 763<tel:%2B353%20%280%29%201%204811%20763>
Twitter: http://twitter.com/mneylon
-------------------------------
Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland  Company No.: 370845

From: Marika Konings [mailto:marika.konings at icann.org]
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 1:59 PM
To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; Campillos Gonzalez, Gema Maria
Cc: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>
Subject: Re: definitions of relay, publication, reveal

Michele, the reference comes from a document that was produced in February 2009, so presumably it is referring to an earlier version of the RAA.

Best regards,

Marika

From: Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele at blacknight.com<mailto:michele at blacknight.com>>
Date: Tuesday 11 February 2014 14:56
To: "Campillos Gonzalez, Gema Maria" <GCAMPILLOS at minetur.es<mailto:GCAMPILLOS at minetur.es>>, Marika Konings <marika.konings at icann.org<mailto:marika.konings at icann.org>>
Cc: "gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>" <gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>>
Subject: RE: definitions of relay, publication, reveal

Gema

Which clause in the RAA stipulates this?

I'm looking at the 2013 RAA's proxy / privacy specification and I cannot see this.

Regards

Michele

--
Mr Michele Neylon
Blacknight Solutions
Hosting & Colocation, Domains
http://www.blacknight.co/
http://blog.blacknight.com/
http://www.technology.ie
Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072<tel:%2B353%20%280%29%2059%C2%A0%209183072>
Locall: 1850 929 929
Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090<tel:%2B353%20%280%2959%209183090>
Fax. +353 (0) 1 4811 763<tel:%2B353%20%280%29%201%204811%20763>
Twitter: http://twitter.com/mneylon
-------------------------------
Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland  Company No.: 370845

From:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org> [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Campillos Gonzalez, Gema Maria
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 12:35 PM
To: Marika Konings
Cc: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>
Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] definitions of relay, publication, reveal

Yes, I´ve seen this, Marika, but it only defines "relay" and in a very confusing way, mixing it with "reveal".

5) Relay Information Requests
See study # 20 for this term's use in context.
Problems arise from time to time in connection with registered names. Allegations of
actionable harm require copyright and trademark owners, law enforcement officials and
others to be able to operate through a proxy or privacy service provider to contact the
domain name user. Potential "harms" could include suspected fraud, intellectual property
rights infringement, or the infringement of other civil or criminal laws. To support the
relay of information requests, service providers must have reliable and timely means of
communicating with their domain licensees. The ICANN Registrar Accreditation
Agreement stipulates that the proxy registrant reveal the identity of the domain licensee
upon reasonable evidence of actionable harm or risk liability for resulting harm.

So, I insist definitions of "relay", "reveal" and "publication" are included in the "Grouping of Charter Questions" paper or else, referenced to a document that provides its meaning in the context of Proxy-Privacy Services.

Thank you again and best regards,

Gema

De: Marika Konings [mailto:marika.konings at icann.org]
Enviado el: martes, 11 de febrero de 2014 13:16
Para: Campillos Gonzalez, Gema Maria
Asunto: Re: definitions of relay, publication, reveal

Dear Gema,

I think that refers to the attached document which is also posted on the WG wiki (background documents - see https://community.icann.org/x/XSWfAg).

Best regards,

Marika

From: "<Campillos Gonzalez>", Gema Maria <GCAMPILLOS at minetur.es<mailto:GCAMPILLOS at minetur.es>>
Date: Tuesday 11 February 2014 12:50
To: Marika Konings <marika.konings at icann.org<mailto:marika.konings at icann.org>>
Subject: definitions of relay, publication, reveal

Dear Marika,

Where exactly can I find the definitions for the terms in the heading? In footnote 7 of the "Grouping of Charter Questions" paper, there is a reference to the "Terms of Reference for GNSO Whois Studies (refer to WG Background Documents).", but I am not able to find that document. Could you please point me to the paper I have to look up?

Thank you so much,

Gema

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