[Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] definitions of relay, publication, reveal

Don Blumenthal dblumenthal at pir.org
Tue Feb 11 18:04:52 UTC 2014 

Margie,

Thanks for the additional information. With the ongoing caveat that this thread is nothing more than a mental exercise for the WG, 1.1 refers to “P/P,” as does the WG charter. 1.3 relates only to proxy.

Don

From: Margie Milam <Margie.Milam at icann.org<mailto:Margie.Milam at icann.org>>
Date: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 at 11:55 AM
To: Don Blumenthal <dblumenthal at pir.org<mailto:dblumenthal at pir.org>>, PPSAI <gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>>
Subject: RE: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] definitions of relay, publication, reveal

Don & All-

Maybe this will help clear up the confusion-  from the definition of Proxy Service under the 2013 RAA Spec:

1.3 "Proxy Service" is a service through which a Registered Name Holder licenses use of a Registered Name to the P/P Customer in order to provide the P/P Customer use of the domain name, and the Registered Name Holder's contact information is displayed in the Registration Data Service (Whois) or equivalent services rather than the P/P Customer's contact information.

All the best,

Margie

From: Don Blumenthal [mailto:dblumenthal at pir.org]
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 9:48 AM
To: Margie Milam; Volker Greimann; gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>
Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] definitions of relay, publication, reveal

I get more baffled as we go with this thread. How would the beneficial holder of a domain be in a license arrangement with a p/p provider? I can’t see it under any definition of the term “license” that I have seen. Examples welcome for educational purposes but the final word won’t be up to the WG. We will pull the points made in this thread and use them to frame our questions for GC.

Don

From: Margie Milam <Margie.Milam at icann.org<mailto:Margie.Milam at icann.org>>
Date: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 at 11:30 AM
To: Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>>, PPSAI <gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>>
Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] definitions of relay, publication, reveal

Also— the P/P Specification from the 2013 RAA also refers to licensee:


1.1   "P/P Customer" means, regardless of the terminology used by the P/P Provider, the licensee, customer, beneficial user, beneficiary, or other recipient of Privacy Services and Proxy Services


All the best,

Margie


From:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org> [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Margie Milam
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 9:24 AM
To: Volker Greimann; gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>
Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] definitions of relay, publication, reveal

Hi Volker & All-

I am not aware of a definition of licensing in the 2013 RAA or any of the previous versions.

However, please look at it Section  3.4.1.5 from the 2013 RAA that uses the term “licensee” in the context of proxy registration services:

3.4.1.5 the name, postal address, e-mail address, and voice telephone number provided by the customer of any privacy service or licensee of any proxy registration service, in each case, offered or made available by Registrar or its Affiliates in connection with each registration. Effective on the date that ICANN fully implements a Proxy Accreditation Program established in accordance with Section 3.14, the obligations under this Section 3.4.1.5 will cease to apply as to any specific category of data (such as postal address) that is expressly required to be retained by another party in accordance with such Proxy Accreditation Program.


Margie

From:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org> [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Volker Greimann
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 9:16 AM
To: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>
Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] definitions of relay, publication, reveal

Hi Margie,

as discussed earlier today, there seems to be disagreement over what the term "licensing" means and if it should apply to privacy or proxy services.

Volker
Am 11.02.2014 17:08, schrieb Margie Milam:
All-

I think the language you are looking for is in the body of the 2013 RAA under Section 3.7.7.3 below:

3.7.7.3 Any Registered Name Holder that intends to license use of a domain name to a third party is nonetheless the Registered Name Holder of record and is responsible for providing its own full contact information and for providing and updating accurate technical and administrative contact information adequate to facilitate timely resolution of any problems that arise in connection with the Registered Name. A Registered Name Holder licensing use of a Registered Name according to this provision shall accept liability for harm caused by wrongful use of the Registered Name, unless it discloses the current contact information provided by the licensee and the identity of the licensee within seven (7) days to a party providing the Registered Name Holder reasonable evidence of actionable harm.


Margie

From:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org> [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of James M. Bladel
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 7:21 AM
To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; Marika Konings; Campillos Gonzalez, Gema Maria
Cc: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>
Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] definitions of relay, publication, reveal

No.  This language does not exist in the 2013 RAA.

http://www.icann.org/en/resources/registrars/raa/approved-with-specs-27jun13-en.htm#privacy-proxy

J.


From: Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele at blacknight.com<mailto:michele at blacknight.com>>
Date: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 at 8:06
To: Marika Konings <marika.konings at icann.org<mailto:marika.konings at icann.org>>, "Campillos Gonzalez, Gema Maria" <GCAMPILLOS at minetur.es<mailto:GCAMPILLOS at minetur.es>>
Cc: "gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>" <gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>>
Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] definitions of relay, publication, reveal

So it’s not in the RAA then is it?

Regards

Michele


--
Mr Michele Neylon
Blacknight Solutions
Hosting & Colocation, Domains
http://www.blacknight.co/
http://blog.blacknight.com/
http://www.technology.ie
Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072
Locall: 1850 929 929
Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
Fax. +353 (0) 1 4811 763
Twitter: http://twitter.com/mneylon
-------------------------------
Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland  Company No.: 370845

From: Marika Konings [mailto:marika.konings at icann.org]
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 1:59 PM
To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; Campillos Gonzalez, Gema Maria
Cc: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>
Subject: Re: definitions of relay, publication, reveal

Michele, the reference comes from a document that was produced in February 2009, so presumably it is referring to an earlier version of the RAA.

Best regards,

Marika

From: Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele at blacknight.com<mailto:michele at blacknight.com>>
Date: Tuesday 11 February 2014 14:56
To: "Campillos Gonzalez, Gema Maria" <GCAMPILLOS at minetur.es<mailto:GCAMPILLOS at minetur.es>>, Marika Konings <marika.konings at icann.org<mailto:marika.konings at icann.org>>
Cc: "gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>" <gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>>
Subject: RE: definitions of relay, publication, reveal

Gema

Which clause in the RAA stipulates this?

I’m looking at the 2013 RAA’s proxy / privacy specification and I cannot see this.

Regards

Michele


--
Mr Michele Neylon
Blacknight Solutions
Hosting & Colocation, Domains
http://www.blacknight.co/
http://blog.blacknight.com/
http://www.technology.ie
Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072
Locall: 1850 929 929
Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
Fax. +353 (0) 1 4811 763
Twitter: http://twitter.com/mneylon
-------------------------------
Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland  Company No.: 370845

From:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org> [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Campillos Gonzalez, Gema Maria
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 12:35 PM
To: Marika Konings
Cc: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>
Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] definitions of relay, publication, reveal

Yes, I´ve seen this, Marika, but it only defines “relay” and in a very confusing way, mixing it with “reveal”.

5) Relay Information Requests
See study # 20 for this term’s use in context.
Problems arise from time to time in connection with registered names. Allegations of
actionable harm require copyright and trademark owners, law enforcement officials and
others to be able to operate through a proxy or privacy service provider to contact the
domain name user. Potential “harms” could include suspected fraud, intellectual property
rights infringement, or the infringement of other civil or criminal laws. To support the
relay of information requests, service providers must have reliable and timely means of
communicating with their domain licensees. The ICANN Registrar Accreditation
Agreement stipulates that the proxy registrant reveal the identity of the domain licensee
upon reasonable evidence of actionable harm or risk liability for resulting harm.

So, I insist definitions of “relay”, “reveal” and “publication” are included in the “Grouping of Charter Questions” paper or else, referenced to a document that provides its meaning in the context of Proxy-Privacy Services.

Thank you again and best regards,


Gema

De: Marika Konings [mailto:marika.konings at icann.org]
Enviado el: martes, 11 de febrero de 2014 13:16
Para: Campillos Gonzalez, Gema Maria
Asunto: Re: definitions of relay, publication, reveal

Dear Gema,

I think that refers to the attached document which is also posted on the WG wiki (background documents – see https://community.icann.org/x/XSWfAg).

Best regards,

Marika

From: "<Campillos Gonzalez>", Gema Maria <GCAMPILLOS at minetur.es<mailto:GCAMPILLOS at minetur.es>>
Date: Tuesday 11 February 2014 12:50
To: Marika Konings <marika.konings at icann.org<mailto:marika.konings at icann.org>>
Subject: definitions of relay, publication, reveal

Dear Marika,

Where exactly can I find the definitions for the terms in the heading? In footnote 7 of the “Grouping of Charter Questions” paper, there is a reference to the “Terms of Reference for GNSO Whois Studies (refer to WG Background Documents).”, but I am not able to find that document. Could you please point me to the paper I have to look up?

Thank you so much,

Gema





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