[Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Issue-spotting for the WG's preliminary recommendations
Stephanie Perrin
stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca
Thu Aug 20 00:41:23 UTC 2015
Please be assured that I do understand how contracts work as a
regulation mechanism at ICANN. However, it is my observation that the
contracts contain policy. I cannot in all instances follow the thread
back to a policy decision of the GNSO.
And if there is lobbying going on to express viewpoints etc, that is a
problem in my view. Greater transparency is in the public interest.
cheers Stephanie
On 2015-08-19 4:37, Volker Greimann wrote:
> The contract is not subject to the bottom up process. I suggest you
> read up on the picket fence, and whats inside and outside of it.
>
> While there is an opportunity to provide input it is negotiated
> between ICANN and registrars, and as in any contract, the
> interpretation of the parties at the time of agreement is essential to
> its meaning. There is no multi-stakeholder bottom up process in
> contract interpretation except where it informed or influenced ICANN
> or registrar positions.
>
> Also look at 7.5 of the RAA everytime you think the RAA creates an
> obligation of a registrar towards you or any other third party.
>
> "V"
>
>
> Am 18.08.2015 um 19:07 schrieb Kiran Malancharuvil:
>> Indeed Stephanie, Volkers comments that the only two entities that
>> matter in the interpretation/negotiation of the RAA are ICANN STAFF
>> and the Registrars definitely flies in the face of the multi
>> stakeholder bottom up process.
>>
>> To answer your question directly, law enforcements recommendations
>> were the subject of public comments I believe. Certainly I recall
>> civil society and others (such as the IPC) weighing in on multiple
>> occasions. Not sure what value that has in the face of Volkers opinion.
>>
>> K
>>
>> Kiran Malancharuvil
>> Policy Counselor
>> MarkMonitor
>> 415-419-9138 (m)
>>
>> Sent from my mobile, please excuse any typos.
>>
>> On Aug 18, 2015, at 9:55 AM, Stephanie Perrin
>> <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca<mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Was civil society present at these negotiations? Certainly sets
>> policy, which supposed to be a bottom up process at ICANN.
>> Stephanie Perrin
>>
>> On 2015-08-18 11:46, Terri Stumme wrote:
>> Volker, with all due respect, the law enforcement coalition was
>> certainly involved in the negotiations. Law enforcement had meetings
>> with the registrars (ICANN staff present), and also met with ICANN
>> staff separately, as did the registrars, to discuss and resolve the
>> issues that arose from the original RAA LE recommendations. I
>> therefore object to your conclusion that I was not at the table or
>> part of the negotiations. I was part of the LE coalition throughout
>> the entire process.
>>
>> If the definition as it is written in the RAA is not the common
>> understanding or accepted interpretation of the Registrars, then the
>> definition should be revisited for modification in the RAA, not
>> changed for purposes of the PPSAI report.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 6:42 AM, Volker Greimann
>> <vgreimann at key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>> wrote:
>> Terri, with all due respect, the language was negotiated between
>> ICANN staff and registrars. LEAs may have had a hand in suggesting
>> language for inclusion, but was not at the table or part of the
>> negotiations. You were definitely not "involved in the negotiations",
>> but you were invited to provide input.
>>
>> I therefore object to your conclusion that your interpretation
>> reflects what the parties intended. It may very well have been the
>> intention of LEAs when they suggested the language, but it was not
>> the common understanding or accepted interpretation when registrars
>> discussed the language with ICANN and agreed to it.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Volker
>>
>>
>> Am 17.08.2015 um 21:03 schrieb Terri Stumme:
>> In regard to Section 3.18.2 of the RAA -- the language is written and
>> encompasses the exact meaning of what was submitted by LE, and
>> accepted by the Registrars during the LE/Registrar negotiations.
>> During the time that the RAA was negotiated, I worked for the US Drug
>> Enforcement Administration and was involved in the negotiations.
>> I believe it is inappropriate to attempt to undermine the intent of
>> this section, or attempt to modify it in any way -- the language
>> means exactly what it says and was intended to mean.
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 11:41 AM, Volker Greimann
>> <vgreimann at key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>> wrote:
>> Can we rephrase the responses to sound more neutral as to the result?
>>
>> 3. Response to Question 3: Does proposed requirement to
>> label p/p registrations as such have an impact on the benefit or
>> value of such registration and if what should be the result of this?
>> (Comments 18, 25, 31)
>>
>> 4. Response to Question 8: Should providers be required
>> to forward all disclosure requests to customers, unless prohibited by
>> law? (Comments 17, 29) (I.e., should this feature of Annex E be
>> made applicable to all disclosure requests, not just those relating
>> to intellectual property?)
>>
>> 5. Response to Question 8: Should the option of
>> registration cancellation in lieu of disclosure be maintained or
>> prohibited? (Comments 24, 31)
>> (Please also note that the cancellation of the registration may not
>> even be a tool in the toolkit of the privacy provider, depending on
>> his degree of integration with the registrar.)
>>
>> The law enforcement authority as discussed for the RAA was supposed
>> to only include official state-run law enforcement bodies and such
>> agencies designated by law with certain powers comparable to official
>> LEAs. We have seen a small number of cases where the language was
>> later used beyond what was intended to organizations that received no
>> more than a latter from a government agency supporting that
>> organizations work.
>> Our definition therefore should limit the scope of LEAs to that
>> originally intended definition, not the unintended definition the
>> language currently allows.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Volker
>>
>>
>> Am 14.08.2015 um 23:50 schrieb Metalitz, Steven:
>> Pursuant to Mary’s request, I suggest the following additional issues
>> raised in comments contained in the public comment tool document
>> summarized, for possible consideration by the WG:
>>
>> 3. Response to Question 3: Should the proposed
>> requirement to label p/p registrations as such be dispensed with
>> because it reduces the benefit or value of such registration?
>> (Comments 18, 25, 31)
>>
>> 4. Response to Question 8: Should providers be required
>> to forward all disclosure requests to customers, unless prohibited by
>> law? (Comments 17, 29) (I.e., should this feature of Annex E be
>> made applicable to all disclosure requests, not just those relating
>> to intellectual property?)
>>
>> 5. Response to Question 8: Should the option of
>> registration cancellation in lieu of disclosure be prohibited?
>> (Comments 24, 31)
>>
>> In addition, with regard to issue #2 as summarized below (“law
>> enforcement authority” definition): since the definition in our
>> initial report was copied from the 2013 RAA, can any registrars in
>> our group report on whether or not this definition has thus far
>> caused difficulties in the RAA context (e.g., have there been
>> problems in determining whether a complaint from a
>> “quasi-governmental entity” should be handled under RAA section
>> 3.18.2, with its 24-hour time limit, rather than under 3.18.1)?
>>
>> Steve Metalitz
>>
>> From:
>> gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>
>> [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Mary Wong
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2015 4:04 PM
>> To: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>> Subject: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Issue-spotting for the WG's preliminary
>> recommendations
>>
>> Dear WG members,
>>
>> As noted on the WG call earlier today, please send to this your
>> suggestions for issues arising out of specific public comments
>> received on the WG’s Preliminary Recommendations #1 through #9 that
>> you think should be discussed by the broader WG.
>>
>> From the call today, two issues with Recommendation #1 were
>> identified for WG consideration:
>>
>> * Whether the definitions include lawyers and law firms that
>> provide proxy registration services for their clients other than as a
>> primary business offering;
>> * The possible breadth/vagueness of the proposed definition of
>> “law enforcement authority” as including quasi-governmental and other
>> entities
>> Since the WG Public Comment Review Tool for these nine
>> recommendations have been in circulation since 20 July, please treat
>> this email as a “last call” for issue-spotting concerning these nine
>> recommendations – as such, please send any issues you spot to this
>> list by Friday 14 August. Please also indicate in your email which
>> comment(s)/commenter(s) you are referring to as raising the issue(s)
>> you identify. Note that, as confirmed during the WG call today, this
>> exercise is for purposes of issue-spotting only at the moment rather
>> than final resolution, which will depend on further discussions, as
>> appropriate.
>>
>> Staff will compile the issues so identified for review by the WG on
>> our next call.
>>
>> Thanks and cheers
>> Mary
>>
>> Mary Wong
>> Senior Policy Director
>> Internet Corporation for Assigned Names & Numbers (ICANN)
>> Telephone: +1 603 574 4889<tel:%2B1%20603%20574%204889>
>> Email: mary.wong at icann.org<mailto:mary.wong at icann.org>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>> --
>> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
>>
>> Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
>>
>> Volker A. Greimann
>> - Rechtsabteilung -
>>
>> Key-Systems GmbH
>> Im Oberen Werk 1
>> 66386 St. Ingbert
>> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396
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>>
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>> --------------------------------------------
>>
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>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Volker A. Greimann
>> - legal department -
>>
>> Key-Systems GmbH
>> Im Oberen Werk 1
>> 66386 St. Ingbert
>> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396
>> 901<tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20901>
>> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396
>> 851<tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20851>
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>>
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>> www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net>
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>>
>> CEO: Alexander Siffrin
>> Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
>> V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
>>
>> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
>> www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu>
>>
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>> _______________________________________________
>> Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing list
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Terri Stumme
>> Intelligence Analyst
>>
>>
>> --
>> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
>>
>> Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
>>
>> Volker A. Greimann
>> - Rechtsabteilung -
>>
>> Key-Systems GmbH
>> Im Oberen Werk 1
>> 66386 St. Ingbert
>> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396
>> 901<tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20901>
>> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396
>> 851<tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20851>
>> Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>
>>
>> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> /
>> www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net>
>> www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> /
>> www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com>
>>
>> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
>> www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems>
>> www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems>
>>
>> Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
>> Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
>> Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
>>
>> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
>> www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu>
>>
>> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den
>> angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe,
>> Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist
>> unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so
>> bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in
>> Verbindung zu setzen.
>>
>> --------------------------------------------
>>
>> Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to
>> contact us.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Volker A. Greimann
>> - legal department -
>>
>> Key-Systems GmbH
>> Im Oberen Werk 1
>> 66386 St. Ingbert
>> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396
>> 901<tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20901>
>> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396
>> 851<tel:%2B49%20%280%29%206894%20-%209396%20851>
>> Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>
>>
>> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> /
>> www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net>
>> www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> /
>> www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com>
>>
>> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay
>> updated:
>> www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems>
>> www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems>
>>
>> CEO: Alexander Siffrin
>> Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
>> V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
>>
>> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
>> www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu>
>>
>> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to
>> whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any
>> content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or
>> rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has
>> misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this
>> e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Terri Stumme
>> Intelligence Analyst
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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