[Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] PPSAI - Reveal requests

Tue Mar 31 13:59:55 UTC 2015

I support Paul's tweak to Todd's proposal. 

I will be on the call today, but will not be on Adobe Connect, I have just moved house and don't have my internet set up.

Thanks,

Kiran 

Kiran Malancharuvil 
Internet Policy Counselor
MarkMonitor
415-419-9138 (m) 

Sent from my mobile, please excuse any typos. 

> On Mar 31, 2015, at 6:57 AM, McGrady, Paul D. <PMcGrady at winston.com> wrote:
> 
> Thanks Todd.  I agree that you and Phil are heading down a good path here.  May I suggest a slight tweak?  I'm concerned that the language is overbroad.  What if the provider had an automatic "we have received your email and are looking into it" message?  That would create a presumption of non-compliance.  May I suggest instead a standard that creates a presumption of non-compliance if the decision to file (by a complaining party), the decision to object (by a P/P customer) or the decision to reject (by a provider) are an automated process (as opposed to being handled through an automated process such as a dashboard full of today's likely infringers, today's complaints by brand owners against my business model, or today's complainant by brand owners and/or response by customers to those complaints).
> 
> Best,
> Paul
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Williams, Todd
> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 8:43 AM
> To: Volker Greimann; gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org
> Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] PPSAI - Reveal requests
> 
> All:
> 
> I wanted to pick up on something that Phil and Volker said below.
> 
> I'm not sure that the proposal on the table that we are debating (request must come from an attorney, VP, etc.) is a good fit for the issue that we're trying to account for (automated notices).  If automated notices are the concern, what does everybody think of this - can we add a sentence to the preamble (could be the last sentence) that says something along the lines of:
> 
> "Given the importance of these interests, and given the nature of the balance that this policy strikes, evidence of the use of automation (i.e., the absence of human review) by any of the parties involved (Requestors, Service Providers, or Customers) to complete any of the steps in the processes outlined below shall create a rebuttable presumption of non-compliance with this policy."
> 
> I think that would be a more narrowly tailored way to address the concern that is on the table that wouldn't run into the problems inherent in trying to limit who can submit complaints (which Kiran, Susan, and others have outlined).
> 
> Happy to discuss on the call.
> 
> Todd.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Volker Greimann
> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 7:34 AM
> To: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org
> Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] PPSAI - Reveal requests
> 
> Phil,
> 
> automated messages are a harm for providers, customers and (maybe surprisingly to some) complainants alike.
> 
> The quality of such complaints are usually significantly lower than those manually vetted, which endangers registrants.
> This increases the workload on service providers who will have to deal with these Finally, as a consequence of the above, high-volume automated complaints significantly increase the response times and backlogs of service providers, resulting in significantly increased delays in the response times for all complainants.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Volker
> 
> 
>> Am 31.03.2015 um 03:22 schrieb Phil Corwin:
>> If automatically generated requests are the harm being targeted I'm not sure that requiring a human of particular status to sign off on the request will effectively address it.
>> 
>> The US courts have been dealing with hundreds of thousands of "robo-signed" foreclosure notices that were signed off on by someone at a law firm, albeit at the pace of hundreds per day.
>> 
>> So how do we reconcile the desire of rights holders to be able to transmit a request without excessive costs with concerns about the process being abused, especially via automated means or the adoption of low standards for generating requests?
>> 
>> Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal
>> Virtualaw LLC
>> 1155 F Street, NW
>> Suite 1050
>> Washington, DC 20004
>> 202-559-8597/Direct
>> 202-559-8750/Fax
>> 202-255-6172/cell
>> 
>> Twitter: @VlawDC
>> 
>> "Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org
>> [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Frank 
>> Michlick
>> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2015 8:00 PM
>> To: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org
>> Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] PPSAI - Reveal requests
>> 
>>> On 2015-03-30 7:42 PM, Susan Kawaguchi wrote:
>>> What I do not understand is the concept of automated notices for 
>>> requests to proxy vendors?
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I think we're trying to prevent a similar scenario that happened with 
>> invalid whois complaints a while back.
>> 
>> Some trademark-related service providers were sending automated 
>> mass-complaints against large numbers of domain names to ICANN and 
>> registrars. One per domain, but often hundreds if not thousands; 
>> submitted by a script. This is a scenario I'd like to see avoided here.
>> 
>> Another nuance about these providers is that while they may have been 
>> authorized by the trademark holder to obtain the domains, the 
>> companies were neither law-firms nor were the emails send directly by 
>> people working for the trademark holder.
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> Frank Michlick
>> --
>> Registrar Consultant, DomainCooon Inc.
>> p: (514) 315-1050
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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> 
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