[Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Proposed draft language to update Section 1.3.3 of the WG Initial Report

Mon Sep 21 18:06:07 UTC 2015

I’m sure we will discuss this at length tomorrow, but I have to say I will fight against a minority view becoming consensus policy via an implementation stage backdoor, which is how I (And it seems others) read this as currently written.
I will happily come to agreement on language that reflects that there was a strongly held minority view on this from important stakeholders, but the text as written goes well beyond that recognition.

Perhaps we are looking at the text in different ways and Steve and Graeme will clarify the intent of the language as drafted tomorrow. In no way would I want to quash recognition that there is a minority viewpoint on this critical issue, but we need to ensure we don’t inadvertently operationalise that viewpoint in the face of majority agreement not to do so.

Speak tomorrow,

-James

From: <gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>> on behalf of Terri Stumme
Date: Monday 21 September 2015 18:23
To: Kiran Malancharuvil
Cc: "gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>"
Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Proposed draft language to update Section 1.3.3 of the WG Initial Report

Additionally, as noted in the attached "Issue Chart for the GNSO RAA Remaining Issues PDP on Privacy/Proxy Services", Item 6.2, this issue was originally brought forth by law enforcement.

On Mon, Sep 21, 2015 at 1:06 PM, Kiran Malancharuvil <Kiran.Malancharuvil at markmonitor.com<mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil at markmonitor.com>> wrote:
Agree with Vicky.  I would also remind the working group that the “minority” view calling for more work includes membership organizations representing thousands of voices including INTA, IACC, IPC, BC, US Chamber of Commerce).

While I’m weighing in I would also reject any association of these groups with discriminatory viewpoints such as that people of color are 2/3rds of a human being (from the notorious and despicable Dred Scott decision).  Slightly hyperbolic Carlton.

Kiran

Kiran Malancharuvil
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From:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org> [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>] On Behalf Of Mary Wong
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2015 10:01 AM

To: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>
Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Proposed draft language to update Section 1.3.3 of the WG Initial Report

Forwarding on behalf of Vicky Sheckler.

From: Victoria Sheckler
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2015 9:22 AM
To: 'Kathy Kleiman'; gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>
Subject: RE: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Proposed draft language to update Section 1.3.3 of the WG Initial Report

Doesn’t that approach unfairly ignore the comments that requested the minority position?  It seems to me that the last paragraph is consistent with the majority view but permits time to assess the concerns raised by the minority view.

From:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org> [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Kathy Kleiman
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2015 8:58 AM
To: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>
Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Proposed draft language to update Section 1.3.3 of the WG Initial Report

+1 James G, Michele, Phil and Holly. This report is stunningly unsupported by the consensus of the WG. It is a complete nonstarter.  It further undermines confidence in this PDP process.

Kathy

On 9/19/2015 9:56 PM, Holly Raiche wrote:
I totally agree with James G, Michele, and Phil.  The last two paragraphs seem to fly in the face of the rest of the text.  We could not reach consensus on the definitions, let alone the boundaries of what might be excluded from use of the P/P service.  I do not understand why we are contemplating any further work on the issue.  The overwhelming majority of comments did not support it.  the WG does not support it. In Phil’s words, surely the horse is well and truly dead and the only appropriate action now is a respectful burial.

Holly

On 19 Sep 2015, at 9:21 am, Phil Corwin <psc at vlaw-dc.com<mailto:psc at vlaw-dc.com>> wrote:

+1. While I was unable to make the last call those final two paragraphs seem out of sync with the long description of why there is no consensus on circumscribing the use of P/P services forcommercial or transactional services.

Further, as regards this paragraph—
The Working Group also considered the suggestion thatduring the implementation phase of the accreditation system, priority be given to the development of an illustrative framework mechanism for how complaints that a particular domain name is being used to carry out online financial transactions for commercial purposes should be submitted, processed, evaluated, and acted upon.  Concerns that a blanket prohibition against the use of P/P services associated with a domain name used to carry out online financial transactions for commercial purposes would have a chilling effect could be adequately addressed by developing an additional disclosure framework.  Requests for further legal analysis of when disclosure is warranted in these situations could find its home here. This could be an appropriate use of implementation resources. (emphasis added)

-- if there is no consensus on the definitions of “online financial transactions for commercial purposes” or on placing any restrictions on them, then how could developing an “Illustrative framework mechanism” possibly be considered an appropriate implementation measure? There is no underlying policy to be implemented. Seems more like an attempt to beat a dead horse back to life.

Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal
Virtualaw LLC
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Twitter: @VlawDC

"Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey

From: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org> [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 5:45 PM
To: James Gannon; Mary Wong; gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>
Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Proposed draft language to update Section 1.3.3 of the WG Initial Report

I agree strongly with James G’s assessment.

If we agree that there should be no “special” restriction for commercial / financial usage of domains, then why on earth is this language there? I don’t understand it.
Regards

Michele

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From: <gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>> on behalf of James Gannon
Date: Friday 18 September 2015 20:34
To: Mary Wong, "gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>"
Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Proposed draft language to update Section 1.3.3 of the WG Initial Report

Thanks for your work on this guys, while understanding that we will be discussing this on the call I will raise now my disagreement with the final two paragraphs on creating an alternative disclosure framework at some point in the future for commercial domains, I don’t feel these represent the consensus or agreement of the WG and would respectfully object against their inclusion. I was under the impression that we had agreed that the public had shown their overall disagreement with a framework that included categorisation of domains, my read of the final 2 paras seems to fly in the face of that agreement.

-James

From: <gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>> on behalf of Mary Wong
Date: Friday 18 September 2015 20:21
To: "gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg at icann.org>"
Subject: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Proposed draft language to update Section 1.3.3 of the WG Initial Report

Dear WG members,

Please find attached some proposed language from the WG co-chairs in respect of Section 1.3.3 of the WG’s Initial Report, i.e. the availability and use of P/P services for domain names associated with online financial transactions. The suggested language is based on the reports from Sub Team 2 and the WG’s deliberations on this point following review of the various public comments received.

The co-chairs would like to include a discussion of this proposed language on the next WG call, and as such we are circulating it to you now so that you will have a chance to review it before then. If finalized and approved, this will be included in the WG’s Final Report on this topic.

Thanks and cheers
Mary

Mary Wong
Senior Policy Director
Internet Corporation for Assigned Names & Numbers (ICANN)
Telephone: +1 603 574 4889<tel:%2B1%20603%20574%204889>
Email: mary.wong at icann.org<mailto:mary.wong at icann.org>

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Terri Stumme
Intelligence Analyst
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