[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Some reg'n data I think necessary (was Re: GNSO Next-Gen RDS PDP Working Group teleconference)

Tue Mar 22 18:02:37 UTC 2016

+1

Richard Leaning
External Relations
RIPE NCC


> On 22 Mar 2016, at 17:46, Greg Aaron <gca at icginc.com> wrote:
> 
> Yes, an ISP will sometimes has a pool of addresses from which it will assign an IP to a user based on user session, or a company will operate a NAT.  This can make it difficult to tell who has been using a particular IP address at a particular time. 
> 
> But my point is that there is publicly available WHOIS for every IP address, stating which entity is legally and operationally responsible for any given IP address.  The world knows who to contact when there's a problem on that IP address.
> 
> All best,
> --Greg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> **********************************
> Greg Aaron
> Vice-President, Product Management
> iThreat Cyber Group / Cybertoolbelt.com <http://cybertoolbelt.com/>
> mobile: +1.215.858.2257
> **********************************
> The information contained in this message is privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Volker Greimann [mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>] 
> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 12:36 PM
> To: Greg Aaron <gca at icginc.com <mailto:gca at icginc.com>>; gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Some reg'n data I think necessary (was Re: GNSO Next-Gen RDS PDP Working Group teleconference)
> 
> Hi Greg,
> 
> that may be the case at the high level or RIRs and their customers, but breaks down at the end customer level.
> 
> If I chose to host a webserver from my home, the best you can get in public lookups is my DSL provider, who will only store the allocation of my user account with that IP as long as that IP is assigned. Once I reconnect or reset my connection, the data will be deleted in short order, depending on the processes of my DSL provider unless there is a legal or service requirement for him to store it beyond that time.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Volker
> 
> Am 22.03.2016 um 17:28 schrieb Greg Aaron:
>> Actually, that is not a good analogy, and obscures an important point.  
>> When one registers IP addresses, detailed contact information is 
>> _always_ published in the RIR WHOIS database.  (Like this at RIPE: 
>> https://apps.db.ripe.net/search/query.html?searchtext=key-systems#resu
>> ltsAnchor  )
>> 
>> Registering IPs (a.k.a. being allocated IPs by an RIR) is very different, operationally and legally, from being an end-user who is assigned an IP address by your ISP.  RIRs to not publish WHOIS data for the end users of individual IPs (/32s).  But RIRs always publicly publish the identity of the RIR customer who has been allocated any given IP address and is therefore legally and operationally responsible for it.
>> 
>> The parallels between IPs and domain names are not exact, for sure.  But the point is that RIR WHOIS databases do contains detailed contact data for the entities they do business with.
>> 
>> All best,
>> --Greg
>> 
>> **********************************
>> Greg Aaron
>> Vice-President, Product Management
>> iThreat Cyber Group / Cybertoolbelt.com
>> mobile: +1.215.858.2257
>> **********************************
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org 
>> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Volker 
>> Greimann
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 11:21 AM
>> To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Some reg'n data I think necessary (was 
>> Re: GNSO Next-Gen RDS PDP Working Group teleconference)
>> 
>> Collection is not the only issue. Another issue is transfer of such data to third parties and publishing it, albeit to a access-limited database.
>> 
>> With regard to collection, such collection must have a business 
>> purpose, i.e. be required for providing the service or needs to be 
>> covered by a
>> (revocable) agreement of the individual whose data is to be collected.
>> 
>> If you are looking at the larger pricture, registering a domain name is not that different from applying for a phone number or being assigned an IP address when you access the internet, yet in those cases the data is not published anywhere and with regard to IP addresses only kept for the time needed to provide (and invoice the service).
>> You can opt out of having your phone number published, of course.
>> 
>> 
>> Volker
>> 
>> 
>> Am 22.03.2016 um 13:29 schrieb Andrew Sullivan:
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> First, when you send to the list could you please use 
>>> multipart/alternative?  (Your mailer probably has some setting about 
>>> "HTML-only" vs "plain text alternative".  You can send both.)  I 
>>> don't use an HTML-rendering mail reader.  Thanks.
>>> 
>>> More substantively,
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Mar 21, 2016 at 11:22:13PM -0400, Sam Lanfranco wrote:
>>> 
>>>>      My brain may still be fuzzy from travel but it seems that dozens of
>>>>      other online services routinely allow one to contact a party without
>>>>      the party's name being published.
>>> I would also be content if this WG could talk only about what's 
>>> published in the RDS, and under what terms.  Unfortunately, the 
>>> charter also asks us to talk about what data is collected.  Your 
>>> example cases like dating services, it's true, do not publish the 
>>> names; but the services most certainly _collect_ that data.  (If they 
>>> didn't, Ashley Madison's data breach wouldn't have been a big deal.)
>>> 
>>>>      Ability to reach an owner, and
>>>>      ability to know who the owner is, are two different abilities.
>>> I agree with this.
>>> 
>>>>      If an
>>>>      owner refused to disclose or respond, that is their right.
>>> Under some circumstances, I agree with this too.  I suspect that this 
>>> is an example where differential data access would be a big help.
>>> 
>>>>      If they
>>>>      are being abusive with the domain name, then the registrar is
>>>>      involved.
>>> This isn't always true.  For instance, mail abuse frequently does not 
>>> involve the registrar.  And registrars have limitations on what they 
>>> can do depending on local contract law and so on, as well.
>>> Regardless, the above argument isn't one for the premise that the 
>>> data shouldn't be collected.  Just that it shouldn't be published for 
>>> anonymous access on the Internet.
>>> 
>>> Best regards,
>>> 
>>> A
>>> 
>>> 
>> --
>> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfï¿½gung.
>> 
>> Mit freundlichen Grï¿½ï¿½en,
>> 
>> Volker A. Greimann
>> - Rechtsabteilung -
>> 
>> Key-Systems GmbH
>> Im Oberen Werk 1
>> 66386 St. Ingbert
>> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
>> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
>> Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>
>> 
>> Web: www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net/> / www.RRPproxy.net <http://www.rrpproxy.net/> www.domaindiscount24.com <http://www.domaindiscount24.com/> / 
>> www.BrandShelter.com <http://www.brandshelter.com/>
>> 
>> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
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>> 
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>> - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
>> 
>> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
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>> 
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>> 
>> --------------------------------------------
>> 
>> Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> 
>> Volker A. Greimann
>> - legal department -
>> 
>> Key-Systems GmbH
>> Im Oberen Werk 1
>> 66386 St. Ingbert
>> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
>> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
>> Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net
>> 
>> Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / 
>> www.BrandShelter.com
>> 
>> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
>> www.facebook.com/KeySystems
>> www.twitter.com/key_systems
>> 
>> CEO: Alexander Siffrin
>> Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
>> 
>> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
>> www.keydrive.lu
>> 
>> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
>> 
>> 
>> 
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> 
> --
> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfï¿½gung.
> 
> Mit freundlichen Grï¿½ï¿½en,
> 
> Volker A. Greimann
> - Rechtsabteilung -
> 
> Key-Systems GmbH
> Im Oberen Werk 1
> 66386 St. Ingbert
> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
> Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>
> 
> Web: www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net/> / www.RRPproxy.net <http://www.rrpproxy.net/> www.domaindiscount24.com <http://www.domaindiscount24.com/> / www.BrandShelter.com <http://www.brandshelter.com/>
> 
> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
> www.facebook.com/KeySystems <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems>
> www.twitter.com/key_systems <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems>
> 
> Geschï¿½ftsfï¿½hrer: Alexander Siffrin
> Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
> 
> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
> www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu/>
> 
> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur fï¿½r den angegebenen Empfï¿½nger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Verï¿½ffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfï¿½nger ist unzulï¿½ssig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht fï¿½r Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
> 
> --------------------------------------------
> 
> Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Volker A. Greimann
> - legal department -
> 
> Key-Systems GmbH
> Im Oberen Werk 1
> 66386 St. Ingbert
> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
> Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>
> 
> Web: www.key-systems.net <http://www.key-systems.net/> / www.RRPproxy.net <http://www.rrpproxy.net/> www.domaindiscount24.com <http://www.domaindiscount24.com/> / www.BrandShelter.com <http://www.brandshelter.com/>
> 
> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
> www.facebook.com/KeySystems <http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems>
> www.twitter.com/key_systems <http://www.twitter.com/key_systems>
> 
> CEO: Alexander Siffrin
> Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
> 
> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
> www.keydrive.lu <http://www.keydrive.lu/>
> 
> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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