[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Dangers of public whois
benny at nordreg.se
benny at nordreg.se
Fri Feb 10 16:03:39 UTC 2017
I don’t see this as an edge case, it is a dammed big problem that the data are public
A private person or for that matter company has not by registering a domain and accepted to give info for the matter of registration in the same time accepted to get his email or other info published in the whois used and abused.
That is a key problem we need to solve in the group.
--
Med vänliga hälsningar / Kind Regards / Med vennlig hilsen
Benny Samuelsen
Registry Manager - Domainexpert
Nordreg AB - ICANN accredited registrar
IANA-ID: 638
Phone: +46.42197080
Direct: +47.32260201
Mobile: +47.40410200
> On 10 Feb 2017, at 17:01, Victoria Sheckler <vsheckler at riaa.com> wrote:
>
> We need to find balance and a constructive way to propose solutions, not this endless back and forth of edge cases.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of benny at nordreg.se
> Sent: Friday, February 10, 2017 4:44 AM
> To: Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net>
> Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Dangers of public whois
>
> +1 to Volker
>
> Spot on, we cant let the criminals endanger all innocents life by default expose data as we do today
>
> --
> Med vänliga hälsningar / Kind Regards / Med vennlig hilsen
>
> Benny Samuelsen
> Registry Manager - Domainexpert
>
> Nordreg AB - ICANN accredited registrar
> IANA-ID: 638
> Phone: +46.42197080
> Direct: +47.32260201
> Mobile: +47.40410200
>
>> On 10 Feb 2017, at 10:41, Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Pivoting off domain whois is my #1 valued resource in cybercrime investigations.
>> Judging from the amount of abuse and spam out there, it is also the #1 valued resource of spammers, cyber criminals, nigerian princes, domain slammers ,etc etc.
>>
>> And that leads to the question: Is it really worth giving up the private data of all registrants to whoever wants it just to catch a few bad guys?
>> And to answer that: I'd rather see a few criminals uncaught if that means the innocent majority will be that much less at risk to be victimized.
>>
>> Best,
>> Volker
>>
>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 12:16 PM, benny at nordreg.se <benny at nordreg.se> wrote:
>>> Dnsservers, domainstatus, various dates, Registrar
>>>
>>> None of these data are personal data imo
>>>
>>> The only info you see in Whois are the contact ID the user have at
>>> the registrar/ registry
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On 9 Feb 2017, at 18:10, nathalie coupet <nathaliecoupet at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Benny,
>>>>
>>>> All personal info on personal domains are hidden by default. What are the info that remain available for public view - after personal information have been hidden by default - which still enable technical operability?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nathalie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thursday, February 9, 2017 11:46 AM, "benny at nordreg.se" <benny at nordreg.se> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Maybe not but there are nothing who prevent us from trying to protect people from there mistakes and stupidity and still be able to have certain level of technical operability with whois data.
>>>>
>>>> A good example are .se which have a whois policy where all personal info on personal domains are hidden by default. The registrant need to opt out of the privacy actively by making a decision. That might be the way we should think instead of what to do to hide data.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Med vänliga hälsningar / Kind Regards / Med vennlig hilsen
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Benny Samuelsen
>>>> Registry Manager - Domainexpert
>>>>
>>>> Nordreg AB - ICANN accredited registrar
>>>> IANA-ID: 638
>>>>
>>>> Phone: +46.42197080
>>>> Direct: +47.32260201
>>>> Mobile: +47.40410200
>>>>
>>>> On 09/02/2017, 17:38, "gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org on behalf of Greg Aaron" <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org on behalf of gca at icginc.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Is ICANN (or anyone else) responsible for protecting Spicer from himself? A lot of the articles about this subject point out that Spicer was neglectful and occasionally incompetent.
>>>>
>>>> Here are some facts to consider:
>>>> * Privacy protection was available and Spicer didn’t obtain it. That was his choice.
>>>> * Spicer agreed to have his data published in WHOIS. So that was either OK with him, or he didn't read the terms of service in his domain registration agreement. Either way, it was his choice.
>>>> * Spicer tweeted out his own Twitter password. He's responsible for that.
>>>> * Spicer himself published his email address in many, many public places over the years. A simple Google search will tell you what his email address was.
>>>> * Those data breaches that Volker mentions have nothing to do with domain registration data. They did not reveal domain registration data. Domain registration data didn't allow hackers to penetrate Dropbox, LinkedIn, and MySpace, and the other places where Spicer's credentials were lost over the years. Bad corporate security allowed those breaches to happen.
>>>> * Spicer has a very different risk profile than the average person. He's been a prominent PR and political operative for many years (and is now working for the most scrutinized entity in the world). A key tenet of risk assessment is that exceptional cases may not justify making rules that affect everyone.
>>>>
>>>> All best,
>>>> --Greg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Volker Greimann
>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 9, 2017 4:28 AM
>>>> To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>>>> Subject: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Dangers of public whois
>>>>
>>>> As we tend to get lost in the thick and nitty gritty from time to time, this recent article should remind us what we are working for:
>>>>
>>>> mashable.com/2017/02/07/sean-spicer-who-is
>>>>
>>>> also here:
>>>>
>>>> http://domainnamewire.com/2017/02/08/sean-spicer-brings-attention-wh
>>>> ois-privacy/
>>>>
>>>> While it could not have hit a nicer guy, he completely and accurately followed policy and look where it lead. Hi private address and telephone number as well as email address known to the world, other domains he registered for himself and his family published, etc. As his email address was compromised in no less than three leaks (plus one honorable mention on Wikileaks), and he recently tweeted his password, it may even be possible to dig deeper.
>>>>
>>>> I hope this helps remind folks that getting private data out of the public view is a good thing.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
>>>>
>>>> Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
>>>>
>>>> Volker A. Greimann
>>>> - Rechtsabteilung -
>>>>
>>>> Key-Systems GmbH
>>>> Im Oberen Werk 1
>>>> 66386 St. Ingbert
>>>> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
>>>> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
>>>> Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>> DE211006534
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> Volker A. Greimann
>>>> - legal department -
>>>>
>>>> Key-Systems GmbH
>>>> Im Oberen Werk 1
>>>> 66386 St. Ingbert
>>>> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
>>>> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
>>>> Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net
>>>>
>>>> Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net
>>>> www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
>>>>
>>>> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
>>>> www.facebook.com/KeySystems
>>>> www.twitter.com/key_systems
>>>>
>>>> CEO: Alexander Siffrin
>>>> Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.:
>>>> DE211006534
>>>>
>>>> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
>>>> www.keydrive.lu
>>>>
>>>> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
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>>>
>>> --
>>> _________________________________
>>> Note to self: Pillage BEFORE burning.
>>>
>>>
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>>
>> --
>> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
>>
>> Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
>>
>> Volker A. Greimann
>> - Rechtsabteilung -
>>
>> Key-Systems GmbH
>> Im Oberen Werk 1
>> 66386 St. Ingbert
>> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
>> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
>> Email:
>> vgreimann at key-systems.net
>>
>>
>> Web:
>> www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com /
>> www.BrandShelter.com
>>
>>
>> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
>>
>> www.facebook.com/KeySystems
>> www.twitter.com/key_systems
>>
>>
>> Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
>> Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.:
>> DE211006534
>>
>> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
>>
>> www.keydrive.lu
>>
>>
>> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
>>
>> --------------------------------------------
>>
>> Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Volker A. Greimann
>> - legal department -
>>
>> Key-Systems GmbH
>> Im Oberen Werk 1
>> 66386 St. Ingbert
>> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
>> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
>> Email:
>> vgreimann at key-systems.net
>>
>>
>> Web:
>> www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com /
>> www.BrandShelter.com
>>
>>
>> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
>>
>> www.facebook.com/KeySystems
>> www.twitter.com/key_systems
>>
>>
>> CEO: Alexander Siffrin
>> Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
>>
>> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
>>
>> www.keydrive.lu
>>
>>
>> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list
>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
>
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