[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Dangers of public whois

Fri Feb 17 20:49:46 UTC 2017

For a mark holder like Microsoft, it's not so hard to solve the secured access problem - one solution could be to allow mark holders to sign up for access rights.  (I am not designing a technical solution in this email, so for purposes of discussion please don't oppose this idea on potential implementation details.)

There are plenty of egregious examples of trademark violation, so throwing out a silly one doesn't advance your argument.

-----Original Message-----
From: benny at nordreg.se [mailto:benny at nordreg.se] 
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2017 12:17 PM
To: Mark Svancarek <marksv at microsoft.com>
Cc: RDS PDP WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Dangers of public whois

I have no problem understanding your example but come up with an idea which can  secure that access and also benefit the privacy of those not doing anything wrong buy still are abused on a daily basis.

Funny that you choose a trademark as an example because there are so many categories of trademarks that another's use of for example xp.sometld don't have to be an infringement on Microsoft's trademark for XP but that's another discussion 

Sent from my iPhone

> On 17 Feb 2017, at 20:50, Mark Svancarek <marksv at microsoft.com> wrote:
> 
> Counter example
> "Joe" has a  web site which is used to abuse my trademark.  I can't contact Joe because his thin data is incorrect or hidden (I don't know that Joe is actually Joe.).  I then contact the registrar.  They follow up with the privacy proxy service if needed.  Hopefully all this happens quickly and the cease and desist message is actually delivered. 
> 
> In actual practice, there is a noteworthy difference in effectiveness if we have to go through the registrar, compared to us contacting directly.  If the registrar isn't responsive, then I may have to pressure ICANN to enforce the registrar contract, which has its own issues.
> 
> In either case, your abuse of my trademark is probably a civil issue, so starting with law enforcement isn't a great option, even if they had the inclination and bandwidth to help out in a timely fashion.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: benny at nordreg.se [mailto:benny at nordreg.se]
> Sent: Friday, February 17, 2017 9:41 AM
> To: Mark Svancarek <marksv at microsoft.com>
> Cc: RDS PDP WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Dangers of public whois
> 
> Let us take a simple example
> 
> A phone number can you as the one it's registered on choose by yourself if it shall be published in the phone book, if you give the number to someone it's your choice as an individual! If the police want your number they will get without to much effort. 
> 
> So why on earth are we forcing registrants to give up this right to choose to whom they share that info?
> 
> Forget what Whois are as we know it and come up with ideas how we can make a new system which takes reasonable interest of all sides here. 
> 
> The Status Quo hammering are not productive at all.
> 
> RDS are meant to make change to the better! 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 17 Feb 2017, at 18:28, Mark Svancarek <marksv at microsoft.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Spam and DDOS will always be with us, and the need to mitigate them does not eliminate the need to have public data.  It seems orthogonal to me.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org 
>> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of 
>> benny at nordreg.se
>> Sent: Friday, February 17, 2017 8:25 AM
>> To: RDS PDP WG <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Dangers of public whois
>> 
>> Another post about the problems with public whois
>> 
>> How anyone here can still defend this abuse of info as a the best system I have serious problems understanding.
>> 
>> http://domainnamewire.com/2017/02/16/control-block-sms-spam-robocalli
>> n
>> g-based-whois-info/
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Med vänliga hälsningar / Kind Regards / Med vennlig hilsen
>> 
>> Benny Samuelsen
>> Registry Manager - Domainexpert
>> 
>> Nordreg AB - ICANN accredited registrar
>> IANA-ID: 638
>> Phone: +46.42197080
>> Direct: +47.32260201
>> Mobile: +47.40410200
>> 
>>> On 17 Feb 2017, at 14:55, Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele at blacknight.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Allison
>>> 
>>> As others have said, if you have an issue please report it to ICANN, 
>>> law enforcement, consumer protection etc., Some of us take our obligations very seriously and lumping all registrars and providers into one big bucket isn't very helpful for constructive dialogue.
>>> We get a number of whois complaints from ICANN every year and we investigate each and every one of them. In some cases it's very obvious that the details provided are bogus, but in others it's not and we have to spend time energy and effort going back and forth with our client and ICANN to resolve it. Sometimes this leads to domains being suspended or deleted, sometimes the whois gets updated, sometimes the complaint is denied. But each complaint is handled on its merits.
>>> 
>>> We also have a whois privacy service. It is NOT a fake address. You can check it in the Irish company office:
>>> https://search.cro.ie/company/CompanyDetails.aspx?id=480317&type=C
>>> 
>>> Now you may not like that people and organisations choose to obfuscate their contact details via services like that one, but that's a different issue entirely. I also personally have correspondence addresses in the US, mainland UK and a couple in Northern Ireland. I don't live at any of them, but you can send me physical mail and I will get it. You could argue that the address is "fake", but as I can get mail to it I'd suspect that in many cases it'd be considered valid.
>>> 
>>> Regards
>>> 
>>> Michele
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Mr Michele Neylon
>>> Blacknight Solutions
>>> Hosting, Colocation & Domains
>>> https://www.blacknight.com/
>>> http://blacknight.blog/
>>> Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072
>>> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
>>> Personal blog: https://michele.blog/ Some thoughts: 
>>> https://ceo.hosting/
>>> -------------------------------
>>> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business 
>>> Park,Sleaty
>>> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland  Company No.: 370845 
>>> _______________________________________________
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>> 
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