[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] What registrars must do (was Re: The principle for thin data)

Tue Jun 6 13:15:34 UTC 2017

So one day if a country passes a law requiring whois disclosure we are
right back to square 1. Unless ICANN stops being an international
organization, we are going to continue to have the legal conflict.

Sounds like this waiver process should be created

On Jun 6, 2017 7:56 AM, "Volker Greimann" <vgreimann at key-systems.net> wrote:

> Not at all, I just do not want any more binding obligations that knowingly
> conflict with applicable law that we will have to renegotiate for ages to
> get out of when these obligations should not be there in the first place.
>
>
>
> Am 06.06.2017 um 13:54 schrieb John Bambenek:
>
> It sounds like you want a contract the only gives you benefits and
> externalizes the risks and harm to everyone else.
>
> --
> John Bambenek
>
> On Jun 6, 2017, at 12:45, Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Jonathan,
>
> we went through a very extended and painful exercise once before with
> regard to obtaining a waiver from a contractual requirement set by ICANN
> that conflicted with local law once before. In that case, the option of
> such a waiver and the general process had been included in the process, yet
> it still proved incredibly difficult to complete despite ticking all the
> boxes of the requirements. We do not care for such an experience ever
> again.
>
> Therefore contracted parties have a vested interest in avoiding such
> conflicts in the first place with any new policy. If such conflicts exists,
> the policy needs to take them into account fully and the process needs to
> be turned around. Contracted parties should not have to obtain a waiver to
> avoid having to comply with a contractual requirement but rather the
> obligation should only apply if no conflict exists for that party.
>
> We have learned from painful experiences in the past.
>
> Best,
>
> Volker
>
> Am 06.06.2017 um 13:38 schrieb jonathan matkowsky:
>
> Volker, can you please describe this main issue as you see it in more
> detail?
>
> *"The main issue is that ICANN has no working process in place for a
> contracted party to show it has an issue with local laws that can be
> reasonably invoked before getting called on it by local authorities, e.g.
> being sued or fined. So we need the excemptions baked into the policy to be
> safe down the road."*
>
> Jonathan Matkowsky
>
> On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Volker Greimann <
> vgreimann at key-systems.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Am 02.06.2017 um 18:17 schrieb Andrew Sullivan:
>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 02, 2017 at 07:00:23PM +0300, jonathan matkowsky wrote:
>>>
>>>> "3.7.2 Registrar shall abide by applicable laws and governmental
>>>> regulations."  Applicable laws vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.
>>>> We should keep this in mind.
>>>>
>>>> Yes.  Also, I don't know why we have to have an opinion on what
>>> registrars or registries must do overall.  What we need to do, as far
>>> as I can tell, is understand what the data is and what it is collected
>>> for, and then propose a policy that makes it _possible_ for registrars
>>> and registries to conform with their local laws.  No?
>>>
>>
>
>> The main issue is that ICANN has no working process in place for a
>> contracted party to show it has an issue with local laws that can be
>> reasonably invoked before getting called on it by local authorities, e.g.
>> being sued or fined. So we need the excemptions baked into the policy to be
>> safe down the road.
>>
>> "Just deal with that on your own later!" is not an acceptable result.
>>
>> As a non-European leader recently put it: "No deal is better than a bad
>> deal!"
>>
>> Best,
>> Volker
>> _______________________________________________
>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list
>> gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
>
>
>
> --
> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
>
> Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
>
> Volker A. Greimann
> - Rechtsabteilung -
>
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> --------------------------------------------
>
> Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Volker A. Greimann
> - legal department -
>
> Key-Systems GmbH
> Im Oberen Werk 1
> 66386 St. Ingbert
> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 <+49%206894%209396901>
> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 <+49%206894%209396851>
> Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net
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>
> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUPwww.keydrive.lu
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> _______________________________________________
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>
> --
> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
>
> Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
>
> Volker A. Greimann
> - Rechtsabteilung -
>
> Key-Systems GmbH
> Im Oberen Werk 1
> 66386 St. Ingbert
> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 <+49%206894%209396901>
> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 <+49%206894%209396851>
> Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net
>
> Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.netwww.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
>
> Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:www.facebook.com/KeySystemswww.twitter.com/key_systems
>
> Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
> Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
> Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
>
> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUPwww.keydrive.lu
>
> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
>
> --------------------------------------------
>
> Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Volker A. Greimann
> - legal department -
>
> Key-Systems GmbH
> Im Oberen Werk 1
> 66386 St. Ingbert
> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 <+49%206894%209396901>
> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 <+49%206894%209396851>
> Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net
>
> Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.netwww.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com
>
> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:www.facebook.com/KeySystemswww.twitter.com/key_systems
>
> CEO: Alexander Siffrin
> Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
> V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
>
> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUPwww.keydrive.lu
>
> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
>
>
>
>
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