[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Who is in charge? (was Re: Why the thin data is necessary)]

Thu Jun 8 09:09:18 UTC 2017

Right, here we go again ascribing presumed ulterior motives when there 
are none. I am sick of it!

We contracted parties are here because we want to work in an environment 
where what we are required to do is actually legal. End of story! 
Anything else is just your fanatasy of evil registrars lurking under 
bridges trying to protect criminals. If that is what you actually, truly 
believe, I pity you!

Am 08.06.2017 um 11:00 schrieb jonathan matkowsky:
> Yes, it does seem that there are competing interests here. Privacy 
> enthusiasts who are trying to champion a guaranteed right to anonymity 
> or complete privacy online over efficient availability of information 
> and freedom of access to the public Internet on the one hand. And it 
> seems that registrars also have a competing interest in placing 
> barriers to access at the registrar level because it creates for 
> transparency, and holding them to public account. Access prevents 
> misconduct by registrars so they have a competing interest in avoiding 
> exposing deficiencies to careful public scrutiny.
>
> Jonathan Matkowsky
>
> On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 11:40 AM, John Bambenek via gnso-rds-pdp-wg 
> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>> wrote:
>
>     I find it telling the only actual entity that is named when we
>     talk about whois scraping is domaintools, not actual spammers.
>
>     To me that means you are MORE concerned about people who are
>     investigating abuse than the actual people causing the abuse. That
>     is why I am not really interested in gated access to anything
>     besides some obvious other reasons (there simply is no way to
>     build it, it will break things, it will make all the abuse worse).
>
>     You have convinced me and others that the first step when you
>     create gated rds is to kick out security researchers and the
>     anti-abuse industry. I mean why else did we burn a few hundred
>     emails and weeks and thin data, for crying out loud?
>
>     Based on the specific arguments made here it is clear to some the
>     problem is not spam or abuse, the problem is there are those who
>     fight it and it causes a bunch of headaches for the wrong people.
>
>     J
>
>     --
>     John Bambenek
>
>     On Jun 8, 2017, at 07:50, "benny at nordreg.se
>     <mailto:benny at nordreg.se>" <benny at nordreg.se
>     <mailto:benny at nordreg.se>> wrote:
>
>     >> To the point at hand: I believe the notion of certifying
>     private cybercrime investigators to be painfully naive (do I
>     ignore reports from someone without a Internet Investigator
>     License? Do we disallow them access to data?), impractical in the
>     developed world, and deeply chauvinistic, patronizing and
>     exclusionary to our colleagues in emerging nations where capacity
>     building is exactly what’s needed to deal with next-gen abuse.
>     >
>     > A contractual relationship, call it accredited or whatever you
>     want to call it, could be allowed better access to data for
>     investigation. That would imo be a better solution than todays
>     practise were the data are flowing freely to all kind of purposes
>     which often are used in a non respect full manner if you look at
>     the disclaimer all registrars have in there whois output.
>     >
>     > I find it interesting that there are people here on this list
>     who defend a practise which clearly violate disclaimers in whois
>     conditions for use of data and in the same sentence call them self
>     good guys, that is kind of ironic.
>     >
>     > This is the standard disclaimer I am referring too.
>     >
>     > "# NOTE: All queries and IP addresses are logged.
>     > #
>     > # By submitting a WHOIS query, you agree to abide by the following
>     > # terms of use: You agree to (a) use the retrieved data only for
>     lawful
>     > # purposes and (b) not use the retrieved data to:
>     > # (1) allow, enable, or otherwise support the transmission of mass
>     > # unsolicited, commercial advertising or solicitations via
>     direct mail,
>     > # e-mail, telephone, or facsimile; or (2) enable high volume,
>     automated,
>     > # electronic processes that apply to “registrar" or its
>     information systems.
>     > # The compilation, repackaging, dissemination or other use of
>     this data
>     > # is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of
>     “registrar".
>     > #
>     > # The data in “registrar" WHOIS database is provided
>     by”registrar" for
>     > # information purposes only, and to assist persons in obtaining
>     > # information about or related to a domain name registration record.
>     >
>     > I have never given, Domaintools or other services like that, a
>     written consent for repackaging the data to there system, just as
>     an example.
>     >
>     > I do see there can be complications in a model with contractual
>     relationships but its all about knowing who you give data too and
>     who you can go to if there are problems in there use of the data.
>     It’s not a perfect model but a more correct way of threatening
>     data exchange were the collectors (registrars) are under a
>     contractual obligation and can be responsible for how the data are
>     used.
>     >
>     > --
>     > Med vänliga hälsningar / Kind Regards / Med vennlig hilsen
>     >
>     > Benny Samuelsen
>     > Registry Manager - Domainexpert
>     >
>     > Nordreg AB - ICANN accredited registrar
>     > IANA-ID: 638
>     > Phone: +46.42197080 <tel:%2B46.42197080>
>     > Direct: +47.32260201 <tel:%2B47.32260201>
>     > Mobile: +47.40410200 <tel:%2B47.40410200>
>     >
>     >> On 8 Jun 2017, at 07:54, Neil Schwartzman <neil at cauce.org
>     <mailto:neil at cauce.org>> wrote:
>     >>
>     >> My experience differs slightly. They aren’t ignored. The
>     presence of these .TLDs is a strong indicator of abuse which bears
>     further investigation.
>     >>
>     >> To the point at hand: I believe the notion of certifying
>     private cybercrime investigators to be painfully naive (do I
>     ignore reports from someone without a Internet Investigator
>     License? Do we disallow them access to data?), impractical in the
>     developed world, and deeply chauvinistic, patronizing and
>     exclusionary to our colleagues in emerging nations where capacity
>     building is exactly what’s needed to deal with next-gen abuse.
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>> On Jun 8, 2017, at 2:36 AM, allison nixon <elsakoo at gmail.com
>     <mailto:elsakoo at gmail.com>> wrote:
>     >>>
>     >>> We're getting there. Entire top level domains are already
>     ignored on many networks like .science, .xyz, .pw, .top, .club, et
>     cetera
>     >>
>     >> _______________________________________________
>     >> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list
>     >> gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>     >> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
>     <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg>
>     >
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list
>     > gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>     > https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
>     <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list
>     gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org <mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>     https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
>     <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> gnso-rds-pdp-wg mailing list
> gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg

-- 
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,

Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -

Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net

Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net
www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com

Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
www.facebook.com/KeySystems
www.twitter.com/key_systems

Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534

Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
www.keydrive.lu

Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.

--------------------------------------------

Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Best regards,

Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -

Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net

Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net
www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com

Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
www.facebook.com/KeySystems
www.twitter.com/key_systems

CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534

Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
www.keydrive.lu

This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rds-pdp-wg/attachments/20170608/6b36b1f0/attachment.html>