[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org

Thu Jun 8 12:14:36 UTC 2017

Yes, there are alternate roots and alternate means of communication on 
the internet outside the realm of ICANN, but they have little to no 
relevance to what we are discussing. Our mandate is the ICANN-controlled 
realm. For all effects and purposes of our discussion, we can pretend 
only this world exists as ICANN has no relevance to the outside. Let's 
stick to that.

Volker

Am 08.06.2017 um 14:04 schrieb Dotzero:
> Stephanie,
>
> Your response clearly shows that you don't understand how the Internet 
> functions at a technical level. To put it in simple terms, ICANN only 
> has a monopoly over who is a registry or registrar for gTLDs that 
> people choose to point to. Anyone can set up alternate roots and if 
> people believe that is a better mouse trap and choose to point to 
> those roots then that is what will work from both a technical and 
> practical perspective.
>
> When people talk about the "dark web", that is an alternative system 
> that does not rely on ICANN, the root servers and gTLDs which ICANN 
> controls or the ccTLDs which ICANN does not control.
>
> When you speak of "controlling things" you misunderstand the nature of 
> the Internet. Perhaps you were not around for this - 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_of_cryptography_from_the_United_States#/media/File:Munitions_T-shirt_(front).jpg 
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_of_cryptography_from_the_United_States#/media/File:Munitions_T-shirt_%28front%29.jpg>
>
> Michael Hammer
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 5:32 AM, Stephanie Perrin 
> <stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca 
> <mailto:stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca>> wrote:
>
>     "ICANN has no power independent of the agreement of everyone
>     to use the ICANN policies for the IANA DNS root.  Ask MySpace or the
>     authors of Gopher whether there are any permanent favourites on the
>     Internet."
>
>     Actually, ICANN has a monopoly over who is an accredited registrar
>     for the gTLDs.  With respect to the contracts between registries
>     and registrars, I would argue that the community has historically
>     had very little opportunity to influence those contracts, with the
>     exception of the IPC who got their requirements in to the DOC
>     prior to the establishment of ICANN. At the moment we are
>     expending a great deal of our valuable time designing the public
>     interface that contains the data we deem acceptable to share. 
>     Inherent in the concept of tiered access, which some ccTLDS
>     already employ, and which the DPAs have already said (in documents
>     in our repository which clearly some of us need to reread) is the
>     concept of discrimination....you need to identify who you are and
>     why you want the data to get more access, possibly untraced access
>     (to enable investigations etc) and bulk data.  I do understand
>     that there is no "centre" there, but I certainly think that ICANN
>     has influence over who gets access to the next tier of data. Let
>     me repeat for greater clarity: I am not talking about thin data.
>
>     I have taken the time to plough through the Interpol data
>     protection handbook.  Some may recall that Caroline Goemans, the
>     Data Protection Officer for Interpol came to Copenhagen.   I
>     hesitate to even mention their handbook because folks will choose
>     to believe that I want the Interpol rules for data sharing to
>     apply to those tireless fighters who report abuse, across the
>     globe...so let me immediately say relax, I am not suggesting
>     this.  However, a mini version of how trusted parties share data
>     needs, in my view, to be developed. I was just accused of
>     suggesting something that is "impractical in the developed world,
>     and deeply chauvinistic, patronizing and exclusionary to our
>     colleagues in emerging nations where capacity building is exactly
>     what’s needed to deal with next-gen abuse." Frankly, it should be
>     admissible to suggest that we need a system that is slightly more
>     organized and less open to anti-competitive behaviour than the
>     club-of-folks-who-know-each-other under which we are operating
>     now.  It is precisely because we are global and a lot of the
>     criminal behaviour emanates from countries where nobody has any
>     mlats or has signed and implemented the Budapest Convention that I
>     would suggest we should think about some kind of accreditation for
>     access to data. Otherwise, registrars who surrender personal data
>     of their registrants are likely in violation of more law than mere
>     data protection law.  [for non-english speakers, the use of the
>     word "mere" was intended to be ironic"].
>
>     Cheers Stephanie
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
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>     https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-rds-pdp-wg
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>
>
>
>
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