[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Who is in charge? (was Re: Why the thin data is necessary)]

Fri Jun 9 00:33:27 UTC 2017

Thanks Lisa.

Chuck

-----Original Message-----
From: Lisa Phifer [mailto:lisa at corecom.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2017 8:27 PM
To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes at verisign.com>; alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca; ajs at anvilwalrusden.com; gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Who is in charge? (was Re: Why the thin data is necessary)]

The EWG defined a minimum public data set. This group may not like "minimum" but "public data set" seems less controversial?

Lisa

At 06:12 PM 6/8/2017, Gomes, Chuck via gnso-rds-pdp-wg wrote:
>Thanks Alan.  Does anyone have a suggestion different than 'ungated elements'?
>
>Chuck
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Alan Greenberg [mailto:alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca]
>Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2017 7:09 PM
>To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes at verisign.com>; ajs at anvilwalrusden.com;
>gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
>Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Who is in charge? (was Re:
>Why the thin data is necessary)]
>
>Chuck, I really think it is bad choice to call the set of elements that
>can be accesses without restriction "thin". Thin is an accepted and
>understood term in relation to Whois and is the set of data elements
>maintained (and displayed) by the .com, net and jobs registries. It is
>well documented. See
>https://whois.icann.org/en/what-are-thick-and-thin-entries,
>https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/thick-whois-2016-06-27-en and
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WHOIS#Thin_and_thick_lookups.
>
>To use this same term to define a potentially different set of elements
>will only lead to confusion. It certainly did for me on this week's
>call!
>
>No matter what disclaimers we put in any document saying we are using
>the term "thin Whois elements" to refer to a different group than is
>currently used in the existing thin Whois displays many people will
>take it differently.
>
>Can we please use some other expression: ungated elements;
>freebee-Whois; or Whifflefarbs. But not one that already has a
>different meaning!
>
>Alan
>
>
>
>At 08/06/2017 04:59 PM, Gomes, Chuck via gnso-rds-pdp-wg wrote:
> >Like much of the discussion over the last 24 hours +, I think we are
> >getting ahead of ourselves. If and when we propose gated access for
> >any
> >(thick) data elements, we will consider the EWG recommendation of
> >some form of accreditation for those who would be granted access to
> >those elements.  In the meantime, I suggest that we focus on the main
> >topic of the week (and the poll), which is what elements should be
> >defined as thin.  Contributions to help us reach conclusion on that
> >are most welcome and I sincerely thank those of you already but some
> >very good comments in that regard.
> >
> >Chuck
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org
> >[mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Andrew
> >Sullivan
> >Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2017 12:53 PM
> >To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
> >Subject: [EXTERNAL] [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] Who is in charge? (was Re: Why
> >the thin data is necessary)]
> >
> >Hi,
> >
> >On Wed, Jun 07, 2017 at 10:55:19AM -0400, Stephanie Perrin wrote:
> > > These are excellent questions.  I would add an additional one:
> > > why are private cybercrime investigators not accredited?  How can
> > > the global public trust them, or perhaps why?
> >
> >The above question implies a deep misunderstanding of the nature of
> >the Internet.
> >
> >As Phill Hallam-Baker[1] said once, "On the Internet, you are so not
> >in charge for every value of 'you'."  The reason that Internet
> >private cybercrime investigators are not accredited is the same
> >reason that Internet policy people are not accredited, Internet
> >technical contributors are not accredited, Internet e-commerce site
> >operators are not accredited, and Internet private fans of dressing
> >up as furry creatures are not accredited.  In a network of networks,
> >there is no centre of control because there is _no centre_.  Since
> >there is no centre of control on the Internet, accreditation in the
> >generic sense above is completely meaningless.
> >
> >The way things on the Internet work is _voluntary_ interconnection,
> >which means that you're a "private cybercrime investigator" if people
> >who have real legal authority in real legal jurisdictions decide to
> >rely on and work with your investigations.  You're an ISP if people
> >decide to use your service provisioning to connect to the Internet.
> >And so on.
> >
> >The idea that there is anyone in a position to accredit someone else
> >for a generic Internet job completely misses the way the Internet
> >actually functions.  ICANN today can accredit registrars and
> >registries (and therefore make policies about RDS) because people
> >agree to let ICANN do this, because it's doing it now and it's hard to change that.
> >But if ICANN proves to be too useless for the rest of the Internet
> >(because, to take an imaginary case, the community around ICANN
> >thinks it is Boss of da Internetz and so can make rules that break
> >operational reality without any apparent operational benefit), then
> >its role in IANA registries will simply be usurped by others, and
> >people will ignore the ICANN registrars and registries and everything
> >like that.  I certainly hope we never get there, because it would be
> >really painful and bad for the Internet.  But it is certainly
> >possible.  ICANN has no power independent of the agreement of
> >everyone to use the ICANN policies for the IANA
> >  DNS root.  Ask MySpace or the authors of Gopher whether there are
> >any permanent favourites on the Internet.
> >
> >Best regards,
> >
> >A
> >
> >[1] of all people
> >
> >--
> >Andrew Sullivan
> >ajs at anvilwalrusden.com
> >_______________________________________________
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> >gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org
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>
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