[gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data

Mon Mar 6 16:21:51 UTC 2017

RE: submissions by interested parties

Knowing who sent the message helps with why they sent it, but we still 
have to assess content on its merit for policy.
We can learn even when rejecting (or not rejecting) cybercriminal or 
torrent site operator comments, should they offer them.

Sam L.

On 3/6/2017 11:15 AM, Kiran Malancharuvil wrote:
> I didn't realize we were in the business of evaluating the ethos of comments received by this group.
>
> Kiran Malancharuvil
> Policy Counselor
> MarkMonitor
> 415-419-9138 (m)
>
> Sent from my mobile, please excuse any typos.
>
> On Mar 6, 2017, at 7:33 AM, Volker Greimann <vgreimann at key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Sam,
>
> I do not disagree, however to understand the message it is important to know the source. If we were to receive a statement from cybercriminals and torrent site operators, our reception of the arguments and content of the message would be colored by the source as well, wouldn't it?
>
> I am not asing to discount the message, I am just saying do not seperate the message from the sender.
>
> Best,
>
> Volker
>
> Am 06.03.2017 um 16:25 schrieb Sam Lanfranco:
> Volker, I see the usefulness of the IACP submission as follows:
>
> The police chiefs, as an interest group, are submitting their views based on their experience as LEAs using public data, and using legal means to access gated data.
> They have views, based on their experience and wishes, about what data they would like to see collected, for either public or gated access.
> Their viewpoint is useful in that it may produce insights or raise issues that the pdp-wg would not have come across on its own.
> The more of these concerned interest groups the pdp-wg hears from, the more informed will be its deliberations.
> Our task is to assess the message, not the messenger.
>
> Sam L.
>
> On 3/6/2017 7:30 AM, Volker Greimann wrote:
>
> Agreed, but we still need to understand their role and position when we look at their statement.
>
> Best,
>
> Volker
>
> Am 03.03.2017 um 17:24 schrieb Michele Neylon - Blacknight:
> Agree with John.
>
> They’re simply stating their opinion as a collective.
>
>
> --
> Mr Michele Neylon
> Blacknight Solutions
> Hosting, Colocation & Domains
> https://www.blacknight.com/
> http://blacknight.blog/
> Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072
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> -------------------------------
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> From: <gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org><mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org> on behalf of John Horton <john.horton at legitscript.com><mailto:john.horton at legitscript.com>
> Date: Friday 3 March 2017 at 16:03
> To: Chuck Gomes <cgomes at verisign.com><mailto:cgomes at verisign.com>
> Cc: "gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org"<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org> <gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org><mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
>
> Maxim, if it helps to clarify (having worked with the IACP periodically over the years myself), I think the point of the document was to represent their stakeholders' viewpoints to this group about RDS. I don't think the IACP was trying to argue that as an association, it is a law enforcement entity (whether for RDS access purposes or any other purpose) -- at least, that's how I read the document. (Sometimes, it's just a more efficient way to convey an industry viewpoint, as opposed to requiring that all of the IACP's 27,000+ members separately submit a letter to this group.) Just my two cents.
>
> John Horton
> President and CEO, LegitScript
> [https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B13GfLt8zwZJRXE5UTAtclVxdTg&revid=0B13GfLt8zwZJSG9zOUVwN1lFKzFrRVlnaWU0NGZ4RmdkUjg4PQ]
>
>
>
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>
> On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 7:49 AM, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes at verisign.com<mailto:cgomes at verisign.com>> wrote:
> Maxim,
>
> It is important that we openly accept input from all stakeholders including professionals from specific fields.  We will have to decide what groups should be given access to what data elements that are not publicly disclosed.  Let’s not get ahead of ourselves.  In the case of law enforcement, we will need to work with them in this regard including with this association if they are willing to do so.
>
> INTA is an association; I am sure you would not suggest that we discount their views.
>
> The concerns you raise will need to be considered in light of the bigger picture involving all stakeholders.
>
> Chuck
>
> From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>] On Behalf Of Maxim Alzoba
> Sent: Friday, March 03, 2017 10:34 AM
> To: gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
>
> Hello All,
>
>   I think we might consider this set of items only as an opinion of professionals in the field of Law Enforcement.
>
> Granting access to data to members of the association is
> highly  questionable, given the non-official status of the participants.
>
> As I understand members of association do not act on behalf of their LEAs, but as individuals who worked/are working in the field of Law Enforcement (and from legal perspective it is important).
>
>   Unfortunately, due to a mix of different legislations in the system of ICANN + Registry + Registrar + Registrant
>   (issues start when they are not in the same jurisdiction)
> we might face situation where the information, intended for lawful purposes of a LEA of a particular jurisdiction must reach
> the local LEA of a Registry (for example), so the only current way is Interpol.
>
> The local LEA has powers granted by local laws, so it is already fixed and is not in our remit.
>
> So the requests from LEA should go directly , and not via associations.
>
> One of the reasons - is identification of the requestor, is should be done in case of disclosure of sensitive information.
>
> P.s: granting requested access would be equal to free not authorised access to RDS.
> The same we see now in CZDS (anyone can pretend to be a student and request zone files).
>
>
> Sincerely Yours,
>
> Maxim Alzoba
> Special projects manager,
> International Relations Department,
> FAITID
>
> m. +7 916 6761580<tel:+7%20916%20676-15-80>
> skype oldfrogger
>
> Current UTC offset: +3.00 (Moscow)
>
> On Mar 3, 2017, at 16:07, Sam Lanfranco <sam at lanfranco.net<mailto:sam at lanfranco.net>> wrote:
>
> Within the terrain of the Internet ecosystem the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) is, in the simplest terms, yet another constituency group, not formally attached to ICANN, with an interest in a particular part of the DNS system, that being access to information that assists them in their work. There is however a slight difference in that their members are within law enforcement agencies (LEAs) with legal means to access DNS data. I would suggest that both of those points be kept in mind as the PDP moves forward with RDS.
> I would take them to be saying two things, again in simple terms.
>
>    *   First, please collect some data that would be particularly useful to us in our necessary work in the public interest.
>    *   Second (our task here) what of that data should be publicly available, and what of that data should be gated and accessible through the normal LEA request channels.
> Is there more to it than that?
> Sam Lanfranco (NPOC)
>
> On 3/2/2017 7:54 PM, Gomes, Chuck wrote:
>
> I didn't discount their opinion.   I simply noted that we will need their help to give them what they want if we don't give the world full public access like they seem to be requesting.  That option is still on the table but how likely do you think that is?
>
>
>
> Chuck
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: Kiran Malancharuvil [mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil at markmonitor.com]
>
> Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 7:44 PM
>
> To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes at verisign.com><mailto:cgomes at verisign.com>
>
> Cc: m.alzoba at gmail.com<mailto:m.alzoba at gmail.com>; gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
>
>
>
> Why are their opinions being discounted then?
>
>
>
> Kiran Malancharuvil
>
> Policy Counselor
>
> MarkMonitor
>
> 415-419-9138<tel:%28415%29%20419-9138> (m)
>
>
>
> Sent from my mobile, please excuse any typos.
>
>
>
> On Mar 2, 2017, at 4:43 PM, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes at verisign.com><mailto:cgomes at verisign.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Sure just like SGs, Constituencies, Advisory Groups, companies, etc., but they need to have representatives who are members.  I don't understand why you are asking the question, i.e, what am I missing.
>
>
>
> Chuck
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: Kiran Malancharuvil [mailto:Kiran.Malancharuvil at markmonitor.com]
>
> Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 3:47 PM
>
> To: Maxim Alzoba <m.alzoba at gmail.com><mailto:m.alzoba at gmail.com>; Gomes, Chuck
>
> <cgomes at verisign.com><mailto:cgomes at verisign.com>
>
> Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law
>
> enforcement association resolution regarding domain registration data
>
>
>
> Hi Chuck,
>
>
>
> Am I missing something?  Are associations not welcome to participate in the group?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Kiran
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org>
>
> [mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Maxim Alzoba
>
> Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2017 12:36 PM
>
> To: Gomes, Chuck <cgomes at verisign.com><mailto:cgomes at verisign.com>
>
> Cc: gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org<mailto:gnso-rds-pdp-wg at icann.org>
>
> Subject: Re: [gnso-rds-pdp-wg] international law enforcement
>
> association resolution regarding domain registration data
>
>
>
> Hello Chuck,
>
>
>
> with all due respect,
>
> it is not Interpol, which may pass requests between two jurisdictions, but a professional association, and there is a great difference between those two.
>
> (it is not an IGO).
>
>
>
>
>
> Sincerely Yours,
>
>
>
> Maxim Alzoba
>
> Special projects manager,
>
> International Relations Department,
>
> FAITID
>
>
>
> m. +7 916 6761580<tel:+7%20916%20676-15-80>
>
> skype oldfrogger
>
>
>
> Current UTC offset: +3.00 (Moscow)
>
>
>
> On Mar 2, 2017, at 22:54, Gomes, Chuck <cgomes at verisign.com><mailto:cgomes at verisign.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Thanks Greg. In case we recommend gated access, I hope they will cooperate in making that possible.
>
>
>
> Chuck
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On Mar 2, 2017, at 1:36 PM, Greg Aaron <gca at icginc.com><mailto:gca at icginc.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> The International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) has issued an official resolution regarding domain name registration data.
>
>
>
> The resolution requests that ICANN and related parties provide "continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and... that IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community."
>
>
>
> Founded in 1893, the IACP (http://www.iacp.org<http://www.iacp.org/><http://www.iacp.org><http://www.iacp.org/>)  is the professional association for law enforcement officers, with members in 133 countries worldwide, primarily leadership-level personnel in national, state/provincial, and local agencies.  "The Association's goals are to advance the science and art of police services; to develop and disseminate improved administrative, technical and operational practices and promote their use in police work; to foster police cooperation and the exchange of information and experience among police administrators throughout the world....and to encourage adherence of all police officers to high professional standards of performance and conduct."
>
>
>
>
>
> The text of the full resolution is below and contains the rationales.  It notes that loss of access to the currently available data "would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner."
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The document is attached, and also at:
>
> http://www.theiacp.org/Resolutions
>
>
>
> I kindly request that this be added to our bank of reference
>
> materials.  (Thanks, Lisa and Michelle.)
>
>
>
>
>
> Support for Law Enforcement Access to Publicly Available and
>
> Accurate Internet Address Registration Data to include privacy
>
> protected registrant information and related Forensic Resources to
>
> facilitate investigation of Cybercrime and Cyber Enabled Crime Submitted by:
>
> Communications and Technology Committee
>
> CTC.06.t16
>
> WHEREAS, this is an updated version of an expired 2005 adopted
>
> resolution then submitted by the Communications and Technology
>
> Committee as CT23.a05 and adopted at the 112th Annual Conference;
>
> and WHEREAS, the lawful investigation of Internet communications is
>
> one of the most valuable tools available to law enforcement in
>
> identifying both the perpetrators and victims of crime; and WHEREAS,
>
> the Internet is global in nature, and as such, poses challenges when
>
> conducting multiagency international investigations, including
>
> delays imposed when obtaining international legal process; and
>
> WHEREAS, electronic or digital evidence associated with the Internet
>
> is fleeting in nature, and law enforcement officials must obtain timely access to this information to fulfill law enforcement duties; and WHEREAS, criminals use the anonymity and international nature of the Internet, and the fleeting nature of electronic or digital evidence, to thwart law enforcement investigations; and WHEREAS, publicly available databases containing information involving the allocation of Internet resources and who they are assigned to, such as Internet Protocol address space and domain names, are a critical tool used by law enforcement, and because these databases are public in nature, allow law enforcement agencies access to conduct investigations in the most timely manner possible; and WHERAS, allocation of Internet resources is expanding rapidly due to impending exhaustion of Internet Protocol Version 4 address space and the subsequent and simultaneous implementation of Internet Protocol Version 6 as well as the implementation of numerous new top le
>
>   vel domains by the Internet Corporation for the Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN), accurate and easily accessible registrant information is now even more important to law enforcement than in 2005 when the original resolution was adopted; and WHEREAS, ICANN and its International members involved in the creation of policy consensus and administration of this information currently are considering new registrant data policy which may seek to restrict or eliminate fluid public access due to business, privacy, or data-mining concerns; and WHEREAS, the elimination or restriction of easy fluid access to this information would severely cripple or eliminate the ability of law enforcement agencies to conduct investigation in a timely manner; now therefore be it RESOLVED, that the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) strongly urges the related Internet administration communities, including governments, regional Internet registries, the Internet Corporation for Assigned
>
>   Names and Numbers, Internet Service Providers, domain-name registries, domain-name registrars, and Internet service providers to assist law enforcement by providing continued access to publicly available databases concerning the allocation of Internet resources, and in situations where the maintenance of these databases may conflict with privacy regulation, business concerns, or data-mining prevention efforts, fully consult with the International law enforcement to assist in the resolution of these potential conflicts before removing or restricting law enforcement access to this critical information; and be it FURTHER RESOLVED, that the IACP membership coordinate the above efforts to achieve the goal of providing consistent, equal, and uniform access to the above-referenced resources for all of the international law enforcement community.
>
> **********************************
>
> Greg Aaron
>
> Vice-President, Product Management
>
> iThreat Cyber Group / http://Cybertoolbelt.com<http://cybertoolbelt.com/>
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> <2016 FINAL Resolutions.pdf>
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> ------------------------------------------------
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> Dr Sam Lanfranco (Prof Emeritus & Senior Scholar)
>
> Econ, York U., Toronto, Ontario, CANADA - M3J 1P3
>
> email: Lanfran at Yorku.ca<mailto:Lanfran at Yorku.ca>   Skype: slanfranco
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>   邦有道，贫且贱焉，耻也。邦无道，富且贵焉，耻也
> ------------------------------------------------
> Dr Sam Lanfranco (Prof Emeritus & Senior Scholar)
> Econ, York U., Toronto, Ontario, CANADA - M3J 1P3
> email: Lanfran at Yorku.ca<mailto:Lanfran at Yorku.ca>   Skype: slanfranco
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> - Rechtsabteilung -
>
> Key-Systems GmbH
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> 66386 St. Ingbert
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> www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems>
>
> Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
> Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
> Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
>
> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
> www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu>
>
> Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
>
> --------------------------------------------
>
> Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Volker A. Greimann
> - legal department -
>
> Key-Systems GmbH
> Im Oberen Werk 1
> 66386 St. Ingbert
> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
> Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann at key-systems.net>
>
> Web: www.key-systems.net<http://www.key-systems.net> / www.RRPproxy.net<http://www.RRPproxy.net>
> www.domaindiscount24.com<http://www.domaindiscount24.com> / www.BrandShelter.com<http://www.BrandShelter.com>
>
> Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
> www.facebook.com/KeySystems<http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems>
> www.twitter.com/key_systems<http://www.twitter.com/key_systems>
>
> CEO: Alexander Siffrin
> Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
> V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
>
> Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
> www.keydrive.lu<http://www.keydrive.lu>
>
> This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
>
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-- 
------------------------------------------------
"It is a disgrace to be rich and honoured
in an unjust state" -Confucius
  邦有道，贫且贱焉，耻也。邦无道，富且贵焉，耻也
------------------------------------------------
Dr Sam Lanfranco (Prof Emeritus & Senior Scholar)
Econ, York U., Toronto, Ontario, CANADA - M3J 1P3
email: Lanfran at Yorku.ca   Skype: slanfranco
blog:  https://samlanfranco.blogspot.com
Phone: +1 613-476-0429 cell: +1 416-816-2852